Omar El-Domeiri wrote:

I vote to not munge the reply-to, and I would appreciate if those who
think we should change the current behavior to read the following
link:
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

Hey, it's Chip Rosenthal! Oh, wait. He's not President of Teh InturWeb yet.


That page says exactly what I, Big Mike, Jeff, you, and everyone else has been saying. "I think everybody should do this the way I do it, and I have Damned Good Reasons."

No less, and certainly no more. The referenced RFCs do deal with email in general and mailing lists in particular, and RFC822 actually provides a suggestion of including the group address in the Reply-To: field, but does not make any suggestion as to how or where that should be done.

RFC822:
<quote>
4.4.3.  REPLY-TO / RESENT-REPLY-TO

        This field provides a general  mechanism  for  indicating  any
        mailbox(es)  to which responses are to be sent.  Three typical
        uses for this feature can  be  distinguished.   In  the  first
        case,  the  author(s) may not have regular machine-based mail-
        boxes and therefore wish(es) to indicate an alternate  machine
        address.   In  the  second case, an author may wish additional
        persons to be made aware of, or responsible for,  replies.   A
        somewhat  different  use  may be of some help to "text message
        teleconferencing" groups equipped with automatic  distribution
        services:   include the address of that service in the "Reply-
        To" field of all messages  submitted  to  the  teleconference;
        then  participants  can  "reply"  to conference submissions to
        guarantee the correct distribution of any submission of  their
        own.

        Note:  The "Return-Path" field is added by the mail  transport
               service,  at the time of final deliver.  It is intended
               to identify a path back to the orginator  of  the  mes-
               sage.   The  "Reply-To"  field  is added by the message
               originator and is intended to direct replies.
</quote>


RFC1123 does not address this question at all.

<quote>
         (E)  The translation algorithm used to convert mail from the
              Internet protocols to another environment's protocol
              SHOULD try to ensure that error messages from the foreign
              mail environment are delivered to the return path from the
              SMTP envelope, not to the sender listed in the "From:"
              field of the RFC-822 message.

              DISCUSSION:
                   Internet mail lists usually place the address of the
                   mail list maintainer in the envelope but leave the
                   original message header intact (with the "From:"
                   field containing the original sender).  This yields
                   the behavior the average recipient expects: a reply
                   to the header gets sent to the original sender, not
                   to a mail list maintainer; however, errors get sent
                   to the maintainer (who can fix the problem) and not
                   the sender (who probably cannot).
</quote>

Or maybe I should say "misquote". The above (section E of chapter 5.3.7, RFC1123) is the most comman reference used by opponents of munging the Reply-To: on a mailing list. The very clear intent of the DISCUSSION paragraph is provision for MTA errors, not a Guide To Running Your Listserv.

I respectfully submit that now, some 15 years after that RFC was written, a reply to the original sender is not "the behavior the average recipient expects".

Chapter 5.3.6, which deals specifically with mailing lists, doesn't address the Reply-To: header at all.

Also please note that Mr. Rosenthal doe not quote or reference *any* source which directly supports his opinion.

From what I can tell, those who want to change the behaviour are just
unable to use their mailer programs correctly, or don't know how to
setup procmail to remove duplicate emails. (both of which take less
time than responding to this thread)

Well, that's just condescending and rude. I *am* able to use my MUA to do pretty much anything I want it to do, my .procmailrc is some 46 lines and works just like I want it to, thank you very little, and whoa, look at that! Managing commercial Unix mailservers is part of my job description!


Now if you had accused me of being lazy and worthless, that'd be much closer to the mark. I'm not about to add a stanza to my .procmailrc just because Chip sez so, and the Reply-To-All idea is a constant pain in the butt.

I belong to four other Unix or Linux mailing lists, all populated and managed by Unix admins with many more years in the industry than me. None of them require Reply-To-All, cut&paste, or procmail BS. I hit the Reply key and the list headers DTRT.

I don't know if you guys have noticed, but this mailing list is all but defunct. You might consider the idea that making posting to it *less* of a pain in the ass could encourage participation.


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