On 3/3/07, gts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Do believe in what people sometimes call 'the force of logic', Jef? Do you
believe every rational mind is as a matter of definition compelled to
accept the conclusions of sound arguments?
I do. If you do too then we have no disagreement.
If you disagree then I must think it odd that you try so often to persuade
me that your arguments are true.
So many misconceptions here. Such disparity in point of view. You're
talking about the trees and I'm talking about the forest and
observable regularities in the kinds of forests that can be seen to
exist. You're talking about turtles, and I'm talking about turtles
all the way down.
Gordon, I've never tried to persuade you that my "arguments are true";
on the contrary, I've said more than a few times that my point is that
it's not even possible to do so in the absolute sense that you claim.
I've said to you several times that we can't prove "truth", but we can
attempt to demonstrate consistency within a particular (possibly only
implied) context. Rather than trying to prove anything to you, I've
tried to offer you a larger frame for considering your thinking about
qualia, probability, logic, and so on.
Interestingly, the more I mention the importance of context, the more
you omit it from your responses. You seem to argue without
understanding what it is you're arguing against. It would be
instructive to switch horses in this race -- I would state your case,
and you mine -- but this would require a mutual interest in gaining an
understanding encompassing other views, rather than an interest in
proving "what is right."
You characteristically cite famous names, but again, as if trees
lacking the forest. I could speak technically about incompleteness
and Gödel's theorem. I could cite Chaitin and Kolmogorov, and
Solomonoff, and on and on. But the idea is simple (perhaps too
simple) and requires no such appeals to authority. And although my
point is a simple one, it is not easy, given our evolved heuristics
and biases in favor of relative myopic absolutes, a set of adaptations
favorable in the EEA, and still strongly reinforced by language and
culture despite decreasing applicability to our increasingly complex
world.
You say
Do believe in what people sometimes call 'the force of logic', Jef? Do you
believe every rational mind is as a matter of definition compelled to
accept the conclusions of sound arguments?"
Can you show me a "rational mind'?
- Jef
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