Quoting Samantha Atkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
On Jan 26, 2008, at 11:13 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Quoting Natasha Vita-More <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
At 03:04 PM 1/24/2008, Gudrun wrote:
and N. Vita-More
This is confusing. Fine that extropians want to self-improve. That
ALL humanity should improve, is quite questionable. Does all
humanity want to improve (immortality, happy pills, ...)?
Good point. Thank you for catching this and questioning it. You are
correct that not ALL humanity should improve if they do not want to
improve. That is why I support human rights to augment. I have
written and lectured on this quite a bit. Since we are both located
within the arts (you find art and me technology design) we ought to
discuss this openly and review each other's papers.
Then of course you run smack into that not only do a great number of
humans not want to self improve or live indefinitely long healthy
lifespans. They actually and somewhat understandably see anyone being
able to do this as a very great threat to their own well being.
Therefore their right to choose not to do these things gets transmuted
in their mind to a right to prohibit others doing these things as they
see that as a threat to all who choose to not enhance. Certainly the
cognitively unenhanced would not be competitive at tasks requiring
much cognitive ability.
So what is the answer? Enclaves where different choice sets were
allowed/common and an ability to choose differently?
Gudrun: Do you mean ghettos, or fenced off communities, or a new form
of ivory
towers? Repeat of history!
The Great AGI
to split off avatars/angels/still,small voices to persuade each one
that they do one these things? I suppose the AGI could upload
everyone to a world/situation of their choice and let them work out
their own karma in a series of virtual reincarnations.
GB
Great.
..........
How does the baptism work? Brainwashing, force-feeding, consumer
promise, gentle persuasion, religiously inspired promises?
Now you are being either silly or snide and that does not further
discussion.
Gudrun B.
Honestly, not silly (what a judgement) or snide, just a bit playful.
Should be
allowed. Do not forget, Natasha, that somebody could hijack
extropian ideas or
ideologies and become some really brutal super-dictator who wants to
impose an
extropian world view.
Well, what is and isn't "imposition" could make for an interesting
discussion.
Yes, couldn't it. A bit like the healthy eating or smoking or what is proper
social adaption discussion.
Think about communism that had failed and had to fail. Marx's ideas
were good,
nevertheless. Stalin was not that great, was he. Personalities and
ideas, they
clash, ideas are vehicles, they are currency.
Unfortunately Marx's understanding of economics and of human nature
were inadequate.
G: As, I fear, is most people's understanding of human nature. I do not
believe
there is ONE human nature. There is a lot of social engineering, though.
Projections, more or less rigid corsets, moral implications, ethical concepts,
ideal scenarios, animal behaviour patterns ...... and SO MANY INTERPRETATIONS
and wish-fulfillment.
Every ideology is created by and 'transmitted' via its members, via
people with
ideas, lust for power and 'world domination'.
It usually goes like:
1. I have some fine great vision for how things could be MUCH better.
2. It can only be fully realized and bestow its benefits if (at least
locally) universal.
3. Not everyone understands through lack of intelligence, bad
programming, malfeasance, greed or whatever.
4. To maximize the benefits everyone must be made to comply.
There are more democratic and more authoritarian variants galore.
And thus the road to hell is [re]paved.
AGREE
gudrun
- samantha
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