9/18/74, design trainee, "Automatic's" Phila office.
Bob Gagnon was working up the street at an ASCOA regional office, we still
work together in various roles (author noted earlier this AM).
I started at the ripe old age of 19, so I'm an elderly 52 now.
1/2" and 17/32" were the sizes, uprights and pendents, chrome, brass, wax
or
lead, sidewalls were vertical, 99% of systems had WMAGs.
There are plenty on this Forum far older than I am- and I'm biting my
fingers to not hint at one FPE that just turned 60 but wouldn't let me pry
the date out of him, so the training wheels for his bicycle sit here
wrapped
but unsent:) (he now knows who I meant)
But in our management simulation course in college, we used punchcards to
enter data to the mainframe at F&M. So some of us express awe at how easy
much of today's software is, and how bad our keyboard skills are.
B:xdir <R>
glc
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Friction Loss
So George, what you're saying is you got into the fire protection
business shortly after fire was discovered?
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Group
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.lg.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George
Church
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Friction Loss
Back in 1980+/- I was doing trees on an excel spreadsheet, a very simple
computerization of the old favorite hand calc sheet. One morning I
received back from ISO a bounced submittal of a 3rd floor addition to
nursing home, since there was an error in the calc. Same morning our
fabricated pipe was delivered. That afternoon Joe Manning was readying a
Crowley calc program for me, went there next day to get it "installed"
and receive some training.
While the timing (release of fab before apvls) was really at fault, it
was time to invest in REAL software.
You get what you pay for in many instances.....save money in original
investment, spend more time in entry/troubleshooting/updating- not to
mention not being able to do grids.
I suppose, in parallel, there are contractors who limit their work to
CPVC since they don't have a couple 24" wrenches or a 300 machine to
thread.
There is a cost to entering the business, and certainly it can be done
at various levels.
Time warp- 1980 was pre-excel, it was in Supercalc 123 (pre DOS, for
that matter, CPM on an Osborne 28 lb "luggable" as laptops were known,
5" B&W screen, twin 5.25" floppies, no hard drive, probably 2k RAM,
looked like a Singer sewing machine or small suitcase...)
glc
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron
Greenman
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Friction Loss
I like this idea. I made a simple Excel spreadsheet that does the
simplified calc method from 13D. That method being so simple that it
probably takes more time to input the data into the spreadsheet than to
do it by hand but at least the computer doesn't make arithmetic errors
like I do. I suspect it wouldn't be too hard to develop a matrix that
produced a multiplier either from a tabular base or by doing a
Hazen-Williams equation shouldn't be too hard. I suspect that a lot of
the commercial stand alone programs available are based on Excel. But
then again I'm not a computer guy so maybe I'm all wet.
On 7/26/07, Paul Sincaglia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Just a random thought in this regard.
For years we have all been essentially stuck using either old hand
calc methods (nothing wrong with them...just limited in what can be
done
easily/practically) or using one of the commercial software packages.
Since the calculation principals (required input and output) are the
same for all of us (NFPA 13 specific requirements), maybe it is time
for
someone
(NFPA, ASFA, NFSA, SFPE et al.) to sponsor the development of an "open
source" hydraulics package that we can all use and improve as our
collective
needs change.
It is more than technically feasible today....and would certainly help
the industry as a whole..save the current hydraulic software vendors.
Just a thought.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jimmy
Waite
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 10:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Friction Loss
Brian,
When I first learned to do calcs by hand I used a book by Robert
Gagnon called "Design of Water-Based Fire Protection Systems." It was
a text
book
for one of my college classes, but the back of the book contains
friction loss tables for everything from steel, copper, Ductile Iron,
PVC, and even cement lined.
Jimmy Waite
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian
Harris
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 1:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Friction Loss
What is the easiest way to figure friction loss when doing hydraulic
calc's
by hand? I know the formula that's in the book but I was hoping there
might
be a reference chart or something you could use instead. I have a
"Construction Master 5" calculator for working with feet and inches
but
it's
not set up to do compound formulas like the Hazen-Williams, sure would
hate
to have to buy another one just to do formulas.......
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--
Ron Greenman
at home....
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