I agree with Rick.
But please understand that NFPA 13 is being used and abused by all involved
to some degree at any given time. The reason is that NFPA 13 can be very
interpretive and that interpretation is based on one's experience and
education in the fire suppression field. On top of this, the building and
fire codes can obfuscate and confuse the fire protection requirements. I
believe we all see this daily in the Forum. As an example, it is difficult
to fully determine the sprinkler density needed for an occupancy as this is
not clear cut in NFPA 13.
However, to make judgments after the plans have been submitted and approved
is certainly not professional and also affects the cost to the owner (in my
case, the taxpayer). I believe that most AHJ's try to prosecute the codes
correctly with the information they have at hand. This is why contractor's
should involve AHJ's more and provide the education they need to diligently
do their job. An AHJ that takes the high and mighty approach on every
project probably needs more explanation from the contractor as to what his
intent is before he proceeds to prefab his pipe. Each and every project is
different and neither the AHJ or the contractor can provide a one size fits
all approach. This probably explains the weasel wording of NFPA 13 in
regard to hazard classifications. Section 5.1 (2007) only gives a general
approach to hazard classification. More detail is provided in the Annex,
however it is always a paradoxical situation as to using the Annex since
this is not actually "the code". It usually is argued by one party or the
other as a benefit in their favor.
I really wish that we could all agree to use the Annex and the Handbook for
clarification on all of the issues pertaining to NFPA 13. The code
language itself can be extremely interpretive, vague, argumentative, and
conflicting.
Bottom line - more education is needed by all, more agreement on particular
issues before construction, and real life assessment of the issues instead
of simply regurgitating what is interpreted in the code.
Thank You
Rahe Loftin, P.E.
Region 7 - GSA
Office - 817-978-7299
Fax - 817-978-8644
Cell - 817-371-3102
"Matsuda,
Richard" To
<richard.matsuda@ [email protected]
dallascityhall.co cc
m>
Sent by: Subject
sprinklerforum-bo RE: Telling an AHJ "No" ?
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
er.org
08/01/2007 11:05
AM
Please respond to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
resprinkler.org
City of Dallas tries to treat all persons as "customers" including
public citizens, builders, architects, and contractors. We even have to
take mandatory customer service training classes which is a great help
for all of us.
I agree with Ed.
If you have a problem with me, then I encourage you to speak to my
supervisors or even to city council members to voice your complaints. I
think I've learned most of my knowledge from listening to the many
patient sprinkler contractors in the area who were willing to take the
time to explain things to me.
However, if I'm doing a good job, then please also voice your
appreciation.
Scold me and praise me like a dog...and I'll happily do my best to do
what's right.
rick matsuda, city of dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Vining
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Telling an AHJ "No" ?
Travis, the AHJ may have been at the top of the food chain for the FD,
but not at the top of the code authority. He gets his authority from
someone higher up, City council, county supervisors, or whatever.
I once had a deputy state fire marshal tell me we had to sprinkler a
noncombustible stairway, when the code said we didn't. He was adamant.
I told him I would do it because the client had to get along with the
project, but that I would take it up with his superiors. Several weeks
afterward he called me with apologies, saying he had been wrong.
In another case an AHJ said we had to treat a medical office building as
a hospital. This time we had time, so I went unofficially to his
leaders, suggesting that he needed a bit of training, both on the code
and customer relations. We won.
George is right. Stand up and fight, even if it has to be after the
fact.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ed Vining
4819 John Muir Rd
Martinez CA 94553
925-228-8792
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
