I misspoke - I should have said that it can be used to obtain up to a two-hour rating on TEMPERED, not rated glass.
Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 7:54 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers A HA!!! That's the point, isn't it? That the architect failed to completely design the building and account for the protection of windows and likely, the limitations of the window sprinklers in terms of mullions, doors, etc., etc. And the fact that they just waved the magic sprinkler wand at the condition with a note means that they've deferred the PROBLEM, but not necessarily the solution. Along this thread, it was asked where, in NFPA 13, this is addressed and it isn't. The Tyco WS is a patented, specific application sprinkler that, when installed in accordance with its relatively lengthy and articulate listing criteria, can be used to achieve protection of up to 2 hours on rated glass. Where it says that is in its listing and in what's known as the ICC Evaluation Service, or ICC-ES. I believe it's public domain and that you can surf the site whether or not you're an ICC member, but if you track down ICC-ES report #NER-516, you'll find that it puts the product into context of how it should be applied per the building code. As a consultant, I try to program the use of window sprinklers as early as possible in the process. They can be thirsty hydraulically, especially if you have a lot of them in the design area like a conference room or showroom application where there's more than one side of the compartment in the design area. They have very particular spacing requirements and they are best designed in close coordination with the architect because usually there will be some means of concealing the sprinklers for aesthetic purposes, as with a valance. And you have to account for window coverings and the type of joints, mullions, etc., etc. And it's the ARCHITECT'S responsibility to foresee all of this, which they usually don't. I would strongly recommend downloading both the ICC-ES report and the Tyco PDS from their web site and carefully reviewing all the conditions of installation before you bid and ultimately take ownership of this design. Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fletcher, Ron Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 6:55 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers It's permitted this way so what's a fellow to do? Tell the Architect/Engineer, Building Department, Fire Department and owner that they have to eliminate the doors and horizontal mullions from 80 ft. of glass wall? And by the way, the next time you want to use a glass wall you have to check with Tyco? By the time we find out about the rated glass wall all the permits are issued and construction has begun. It's probably a little too late to architecturally redesign the entire lobby area. Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Sprinkler Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott A. Futrell Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 6:16 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers The Tyco limitations are because that is what is required to keep the glass intact, make the sprinkler work properly, and ensure the wall rating. If it is designed, installed, approved, and accepted incorrectly it is still wrong regardless of what the AHJ approves. With all due respect Ron, you won't be okay if something goes wrong and you haven't used the Tyco sprinkler given that it is available for this specific application and the information in the thread below including Chris' input. Scott (763) 425-1001 Office (612) 759-5556 Cell -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fletcher, Ron Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 7:59 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers If the AHJ will approve closely spaced sprinklers you should be okay. The Tyco window sprinkler has some severe limitations like no horizontal mullions which translates to no doors. Just because a sprinkler is UL Listed for an application it doesn't mean it's the only thing that can be used. We at the office have often discussed submitting a line of sprinklers to UL for testing and sending along a tanker truck of water from phoenix for the test. We would then have the only sprinkler UL Listed with Phoenix water. Following the window sprinkler logic everyone would have to buy our sprinkler if they did work in Phoenix. (lol) Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Sprinkler Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Russell Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:21 AM To: AFSA Subject: Window Sprinklers Mornin'. I am bidding a project which consists of an educational facility. Down the center of the building runs an 8' wide corridor. 60' of one of the corridor walls is glass. The corridor walls are fire rated so I am installing sprinklers on both sides of the glass at a max. of 6' spacing. Tyco makes a sprinkler expressly for this use. I can find nothing in codes or standards that require me to use this Tyco sprinkler. Does anyone know of a requirement to use this sprinkler? Why would a contractor choose to use an $80.00 Tyco sprinkler when a $3.00 SSP will do the same job? This makes me concerned that there is one sorta like the CC1 and CC2 sprinkler. Any input will be greatly appreciated. Russell Rewis Brown Automatic Sprinklers, Inc. 107C Hemlock Street Valdosta, Georgia 31601 229-244-8130 [EMAIL PROTECTED] _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3482 (20080930) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
