I don't know if I've seen all of this thread, I just got back today. The first thing that strikes me is that storage is 110 feet, and I'm assuming there are ceiling sprinklers that are even higher. So, not to throw another kink in your operation, but how will stratification of heat work in this situation? I would seem to me that if there are in-racks at 10 feet, and ceiling sprinklers at 115ish feet; then if a fire started at 25 feet, I wouldn't expect the ceiling sprinklers to operate. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but with a vertical distance of 85 feet, would be more than enough space for the heat to rise, cool, settle, and render the ceiling sprinklers moot.
Just my Monday's two cents. Hopefully I didn't ruin your day. Jimmy Waite Burtell Fire Protection 406-652-7697 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:57 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: 1st Level of in-rack sprinklers location We all know that nothing ever falls out and that stuff never collects in empty spaces under things, does it? At 11:42 AM 1/5/2009, you wrote: >If you room for another foot, I'll toss out a thought > >We have a high level of assurance that stuff will not be located on >the floor (that pesky automated equipment has little tolerance for >variances I assume). > >Would you not consider that the main issue is having in-racks every >other level (provided they are typical heights) so as to limit the >amount of combustibles between rows of sprinklers. The 10 ft off the >floor is based on having a level on the floor and it reminds us that >the average load is expected to be 4 ft to 5 ft. It also addresses >taller commodities, whereas I would say that requires in-racks at >every tier. > >SInce you seem to be our only AHJ on-line this fine day, what say ye? > >Roland > >On Jan 5, 2009, at 8:03 AM, Matsuda, Richard wrote: > >>110-feet?...woohoo...I don't think I've ever seen anything like this. >>I'm glad I asked before I stuck my foot in my mouth. >> >>I'll have to agree with Todd and change my answer to No, put the 1st >>level of rack sprinklers at 10-foot as shown in the figure. >>The storage arrangement is an extreme...and any source of ignition >>would >>probably be at the floor level. Having two levels of rack sprinklers >>instead of one level below 20-feet seems like a better design to >>control >>the fire in the incipient stages. This is just my opinion so don't >>shoot >>me. >>rick matsuda >>city of dallas >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>Fletcher, >>Ron >>Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:46 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: 1st Level of in-rack sprinklers location >> >>1. 110 ft. storage. >>2. Every other level as shown in 17.3.4.1.3(d). >>3. Class IV and Group A in cartons. >> >>In this case it makes one level of sprinklers difference and in this >>building it's a lot of sprinklers. >> >>Ron Fletcher >>Aero Automatic Sprinkler >>21605 N. Central Ave >>Phoenix, AZ 85024 >>P: 623.580.7836 >>F: 623.434.3420 >>C: 602.763.4160 >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>Matsuda, >>Richard >>Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 7:52 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: 1st Level of in-rack sprinklers location >> >>Ron, >>My answer is maybe yes...but I'd like to know the full extent of the >>storage before I agreed. >>1. How high is the total storage? The chart is for over 25-feet high. >>2. Where are the 2nd and 3rd levels of rack sprinkler located? >>3. What is being stored? >>Not that any of these questions make a difference, but I'd like to >>know >>what I'm agreeing to before it's all said and done. >> >>Another question of similar nature...If your total storage arrangement >>is 35-feet high, do you design for the total height of 35-feet or only >>30-feet high since the lower 5-feet is dead space? >> >>rick matsuda >>city of dallas >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>Fletcher, >>Ron >>Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 8:21 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: 1st Level of in-rack sprinklers location >> >>Anyone want to take a shot at this? >> >>Figure 17.3.4.1.3(d) indicates the first level of sprinklers to be 10 >>ft. approximately from the floor and is shown above the second cube in >>the elevation view. >> >>If there is a 5 ft. dead space (empty with no storage or other >>equipment) from the floor to the bottom of the first level of storage >>could the first level of in-racks be above the second cube but >>approximately 15 ft off the floor? It's in a rack supported bldg. with >>automated pickers so the machine can't go low enough to use the first >>four or five feet from the floor so the space is empty. >> >>Hope you all have a happy new year. >> >>Ron Fletcher >>Aero Automatic Sprinkler >>21605 N. Central Ave >>Phoenix, AZ 85024 >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, Connecticut www.fpdc.com 860.535.2080 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
