I think perhaps it got lost in the written word. I was stretching a bit to make more of a case against the original statements by Scot.
Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [email protected] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: ESFR and Smoke Vents Keeping in mind that this thread turned hard left based on the words, "... where the sprinkler systems simply did not do their job ..." I would say: First one is not a failure - system was off. Second one - did the mill have a system that was adequately designed and installed for the hazard and occupancy? You alluded to a hood upgrade - was the existing one per code? And if the plant kept operating and there were no injuries I'd give the system more than partial credit. Third one - no injuries, building saved, predictable water damage from 30 operating sprinklers. How would the building have looked without the system? Fourth one - act of God, system damaged and rendered partially or wholly non-op. Still not seeing where any of this constitutes sprinklers simply hnot doing their job. In fact, the performance of sprinklers when properly designed and maintained for the use and occupancy of the building in which they are installed is so ridiculously reliable that I'm having a hard time justifying this thread in the AFSA Forum ... Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris Cahill Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:00 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: ESFR and Smoke Vents I know of 7, 3 big box, one in AZ, one in MA, and one in GA. A storage warehouse in St. Paul but the system was off during an arson fire while the sprinkler contractor was working on it and the heads where it started were severely obstructed. In the end with the quick thinking fitter and a little luck it was a minor loss but 46 heads did operate. No injuries. A running dust fire in St. Paul in a cardstock mill. The fire from the dust was minor until it reached a 200' x 75' wood exhaust hood. Which would really have not been a big deal had they not retrofitted a metal one above. 250 something heads operated. In the end it looked bad but they never stopped the plant including the rollers under the fire. No injuries. A fire in a multistory apartment in West St. Paul that went up the outside into the sprinklered attic. I never got an official report on this but recall 30 something heads operated. Other than some water most of the building was habitable after the fire. FD had to escort many elderly out initially. No injuries. Manufacturing plant in West St. Paul again, I think, maybe South St. Paul. Some type of pressure vessel took off for the moon and while going through the roof took out the sprinkler main and a high pressure 2" gas line. As I recall the cause of the launch wasn't a sprinkler preventable issue. In-other-words an uncontrolled fire didn't cause the launch. The many 10's of thousands of sq. ft. were on the ground as the FD arrived or very shortly thereafter. No injuries I think. I guess one wanting to make a case would include 9/11 but that was a MISSLE ATTACK in an act of WAR. But don't take my count to infer I think we should be designing most buildings for sprinkler failure. Most buildings IMHO do not need more than sprinklers and a few exits for fire safety. Assumed in that statement is properly installed and maintained, not subject to war. And I know there are those that disagree. And at least 5 I list were questionable if they were proper. It's the assumed part that leads to the discussion. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [email protected] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:59 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: ESFR and Smoke Vents "Many instances?" Care to list a few for us? Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of å... .... Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: ESFR and Smoke Vents where the sprinklers systems simply did not do their job scot deal _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3862 (20090217) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3862 (20090217) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
