Rich:

I bet that pipe didn't go from 8" to 4" because of the TB over night. And
not even in 1 year. Again location has significance. Know your system. To
say every design must have a flow test of less than 12 months old, is the
conservative way to approach this issue. Does it waste time and money? Of
Course, but if you the AHJ. And require the contractors to perform it, it's
not your money!

Actually our models match our occasional new flow test very closely. Like
our recent Mt. Werner circle test. Model shows static 132Psi which was right
on, since it is computer controlled pressure to the system. When we flow
tested our gauges blew out at 100 psi pito flowing over 1200 Gpm per 2-1/2"
outlet. This follows pretty well with the 3500 Gpm @ 98 Psi modeled. All
this for a 600 Gpm demand system. Just another waste of time and money.

Desert? Yes Steamboat springs is a ski area, and yes Mt. Werner is an alpine
environment. My office however, located 3 miles from the base area is in the
high desert. All water for plans is pumped in. Sage brush, some sarvis berry
and scrub oak are native along with buffalo grass and cactus. This area is
green 2-3 weeks a year, then turns brown for the other 11-1/2 months. Oh yes
we also have a Monsoon season.(That is a late afternoon shower lasting 20 -
30 min and evaporating in less time than it took to fall, that is when it
reaches the ground at all.)

Thom McMahon, SET
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
P.O. Box 882136
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488
Tel:  970-879-7952
Fax: 970-879-7926



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Hydrant Flow Test time frame for validity

How do the hydraulic models compare with actual flows? One of my neighboring
towns has some company using a hydraulic model to predict flow, but they
never seem to get near what comes out in an actual flow.

BTW, I didn't realize there is that much desert in Steamboat Springs...


At 01:47 PM 5/12/2009, you wrote:
>Flow tests in well established areas need not be as frequent as in 
>newly developed areas. Example: Down town Seattle most likely has not 
>changed significantly in the last 20 years. A 5 year old test is still 
>pretty close to a current test, within the variance you'll see for time 
>of day or season of the year. However in a new industrial park, where 6 
>Mo. Ago there were empty lots, and now you have Mfg. food processing 
>and other high use installations, 6 Mo. May have been too long.
>
>Location Location Location!
>Here in the dry west, we'd rather use a hydraulic model than flow an 
>open hydrant. We really need to save that water for Kentucky blue grass 
>the planners thought appropriate for a desert.
>
>Thom McMahon, SET
>Firetech, Inc.
>2560 Copper Ridge Dr
>P.O. Box 882136
>Steamboat Springs, CO 80488
>Tel:  970-879-7952
>Fax: 970-879-7926
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [email protected]
>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R 
>Richardson
>Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:02 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Hydrant Flow Test time frame for validity
>
>We are reviewing our policy as to the length of time for use of hydrant 
>flow test data.
>
>We have heard ranges from as short as 6 months to 18 months.
>
>If the forum members would be willing to share thoughts as to how old 
>of a test is accepted by the AHJ's you deal with it can help guide our 
>revised policy.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Rich Richardson
>Seattle Fire Department
>
>
>
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Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, Connecticut
www.fpdc.com
860.535.2080
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