There is one thing in this discussion that I don’t understand... In every house in Belgium we have incoming 3 phase 240vac + 1 neutral + 1 earth. Most of this installations will be TN and sometimes (in older houses) TN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system Every industrial building using more than (230 vac X 3 phase X 100 ampere = ) 70.000 watt/hour peak, will have this without questions, and when there is a sprinkler installation, no discussion at all; there will also be 3 phase. So my question : why are you using or speaking about 1 phase / 3 phase convertors ?? This is already forbidden in Belgium... so long... that I cannot find it back. It must be around 1976, that it is forbidden to use in working conditions (under OSH regulations). In private housing, forbidden around 1985... We have a "General Regalements about Electrical Installation" (I can send the link of the French or Dutch version is someone want it), that despite the 'old fashion name' is one of Best In Practice, regulations worldwide. So prevent a fire and start working with 3-phase engines. Regards Belgium - Giedo -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Namens Todd Williams Verzonden: 2009-08-26 19:34 Aan: [email protected] Onderwerp: RE: 3 from 1 The biggest single phase fire pump available has a 15 hp motor. Have done 3 of them and the power companies have been OK with it. At 12:33 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: >Most utility companies have a maximum Hp they allow for single Ph power, >locally it is max 10 Hp. Not much advantage to a phase converter if your >only allowed 10Hp of single phase to supply it. I don't think a converter >can give you "soft start" capability. > >Thom McMahon, SET >Firetech, Inc. >2560 Copper Ridge Dr >P.O. Box 882136 >Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 >Tel: 970-879-7952 >Fax: 970-879-7926 > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >[email protected] >Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:30 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: 3 from 1 > > >Also, the 2010 edition of NFPA 20 will explicitly state that you cannot >convert from single to three phase. (according to an NFSA bulletin the >committee has already agreed on this). > > > >Forest Wilson > >Cherokee Fire > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ron Greenman <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2009 12:26 pm >Subject: Re: 3 from 1 > > > > >Todd, > >20-A.9.2.2 in the 2007 edition. Not prohibited but not recommended. > >On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Todd Williams<[email protected]> wrote: > > You may need to have an electrical engineer review the installation. > > I did a single phase pump a few years ago and ran into electrical > > problems (for which I was blamed). Hired an EE and he went through and > > found the electrician messed up the installation from the service > > right through to the pump as well as the generator feed and > > connection. Didn't have a converter, but did have two transformers > > because the electrician told us the wrong voltage (208 v. 240 - for > > which I was also blamed). > > > > BTW, what section of the Code says Phase Converters are not allowed? > > I couldn't find that at the time, but had rejected the idea anyway. > > > > > > > > > > At 11:58 AM 8/26/2009, you wrote: > >>I need some education of Phase Converters. > >> > >> > >> > >>A 300 gpm Fire Pump (Tank fed), is supplied by one of these things. > >>Single phase only is available, so one of these has been installed to make >it work. > >>Installed in '06-07ish, just replaced main board in controller. I was > >>there to do test following part replace. 240vac, dropped to 106-108 > >>across the 3 as indicated on panel. Middle leg showed 422vac in event log, >as high peak. > >>When started, pump shaft (vertical) jumped up and down repeatedly. We > >>red tagged it and are waiting on word from electricians. Pump Motor > >>checked out fine. I know they are not allowed, but it was approved, so., I >just test it. > >> > >> > >> > >>R/ > >> > >>Matt > >> > >> > >> > >>Matthew J. Willis, CET > >> > >>Automatic Fire Sprinklers > >> > >>Norred Fire Systems L.L.C. > >> > >>318-387-1134 Voice > >> > >>318-387-1163 Facsimile > >> > >>[email protected] > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>[email protected] > >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > Todd G. Williams, PE > > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > > Stonington, Connecticut > > www.fpdc.com > > 860.535.2080 > > ______________________ >_________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > >-- >Ron Greenman >Instructor >Fire Protection Engineering >Bates Technical College >Tacoma, WA > >Member: >SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, Connecticut www.fpdc.com 860.535.2080 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
