I'd venture a guess that thee are more illegal door stops in use than closed spkr valves :)
glc -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Law, Kevin W Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 1:56 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: non-rated door One of the reasons that you don't find a listed application for water curtains on a fire door may be the difficulty in performing a test in accordance to NFPA 252 to get a rated door. I haven't talked to anyone at a lab facility, but I am thinking that they would be resistant to putting an array of sprinklers inside of their furnace while performing a burn test on a door assembly. Plus, I think that it would be tough to keep the furnace temperatures in line with the test curve with sprinklers inside of the furnace. It seems that I have heard rumors of water curtains for glass wall assemblies (maybe it is more wishful thinking by artistic architects), but I don't have any experience with those things. The only thing I have been able to find is water curtains for exposure and opening protection on exterior walls, not for anything inside of a building. If you have a daring AHJ and engineer you could write up a performance based criteria, but I wouldn't do it. Fire doors are supposed to be a passive barrier. If the sprinkler system has a problem, in spite of our best efforts (how many times have valves been shut, etc), then that door is going to BURN. Kevin Law, PE Bechtel National, Inc. Waste Treatment Project Fire Protection Engineering Work (509) 371-3280 Cell (509) 531-5715 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Kowkabany Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:20 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: non-rated door Matt, There is no code or provision for being able to add a fire rating to walls or partitions by adding sprinklers on both sides, but I do wish I had a dollar for every time I have had an architect ask me this. It seems like it would make sense, but there is no listing or precedence that I am aware of for doing this for walls - unlike what is in place for glazing with window sprinklers and such. Luckily, rated doors are not that expensive. Your contractor should just buy one. Good luck, Steve Kowkabany, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Neptune Fire Protection Engineering LLC 60 Ocean Boulevard, Suite 15 Atlantic Beach, FL 32233 904-652-4200 Phone 904-212-0868 Fax We have moved. Please note our new address. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matt Grise Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:41 PM To: [email protected] Subject: non-rated door I have a case where a contractor wants to put a decorative (not fire rated) door into a rated hallway of a non-sprinkled building. I was hoping that there was some code or study that allows for a water curtain to be placed on both sides of the door in order to maintain the fire rating. Has anyone heard of anything like this? Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP Sales Engineer Alliance Fire Protection *Licensed in KS & MO 913.888.0647 ph 913.888.0618 f 913.927.0222 cell www. AFPsprink.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.60/2496 - Release Date: 11/12/09 07:38:00 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
