Let's try a little logic and code. As Craig says the building code as adopted for the jurisdiction will tell you if you need sprinklers for a building. In Craig's example if the BUILDING is 15,500 sqft or larger it needs sprinklering. An Olympic size pool is about 13,500 sqft itself. So if I have any kind of public pool. whether for sports or recreation, the building that houses it is likely to exceed the 15,500. And if there are spectators (anyone have a DEFINITION, not a guess, as to what this means in the building code) then we'll be into a different occupancy and different conditions. So lets assume that if we have an indoor pool, and not on a private residence (how would you deal with this in 13D since indoor pools are not an exempted location like small closets, garages, unheated areas, etc.?), the total BUILDING, not just the pool room, will likely exceed 15,500 sqft. So, per building code, the BUILDING will need to be sprinklered. That sends us to 13 for guidance about how and where, and where not, in the building. The first thing we learn is you sprinkler the ENTIRE BUILDING. If I stop my research there and sprinkle the entire building I've nothing to worry about. That would include stud bays without a noncombustible fill among other concealed spaces. So a little more research and I find I can exempt non-combustible concealed spaces. Then I find I can exempt combustible concealed spaces if the space between the interior surface of a combustible solid wood framing member is 6" or less from an adjacent combustible member. WooHoo! I get to exempt combustible spaces with drop ceilings close to the framing and average plumbing chases in the typical commercial back to back restroom configuration. And I get the same advantage with TJI type framing if I compartmentalize the void spaces. But as I find the (sixteen, if I recall) exemptions never do I see a word about swimming pools. Then we can take a look at the filled versus unfilled pool and the "logical" conclusion that you don't need sprinklers above a pool full of water, but that you might just drain the pool and use it for storage. Well, the Emperor of Rome might want to reenact the Battle of Actium in this pool and put a Trireme in it spitting Greek Fire, but that's unlikely. Just as unlikely as someone building a pool with the intent of using it for storage instead of swimming and water polo and the like. That it happens, and happens often is irrelevant. The code is based on the premise that the original intended use is what the continuing use will be, and if the use changes a re-evaluation will occur, and may result in a redefinition of occupancy. What ifs lead done dangerous rabbit holes. What if Nazi Storm Troopers assault my light hazard college facility with flame throwers? What if I drain the school pool and store cases of methyl-ethyl-death, C4, TNT, and Zyklon B in it? What could happen if we put the little nuclear reactor under the gym bleachers, Dr. Fermi?
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 5:14 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > It seems that some think NFPA 13 is the only place to look for guidance on > design requirements. The building and fire codes are the primary source > telling you when and where and under what condition a building must be > provided with sprinklers. > > Go to the Building Code: (using 2009 for reference) > > Swimming pool without spectator is an A-3 occupancy. [Section 303] > > Table 503 sets limitations on areas for A-3 occupancies based on building > construction types. > > So sprinklers may or may not be required based on whether you are under or > over the area limit. > > So for example, for a Type IIA construction you can go 15,500 sq. ft, > beyond that you have to provide sprinklers. See Section 507.6, 2. for > additional data on building area requirements. > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Group Lead > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 5:19 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Swimming Pools RFI > > Guyz/Gals: > > > I know that, at one time, there was a 'blurb' about sprinkler protection > over swimming pool areas. We have just spent a fairly significant amount of > time looking for the 'requirement' in recent editions of 13 - and have been > unable to find a specific citation. Aside from "all areas are required to > be sprinklered..." can anyone assist us with a specific reference to > swimming pool areas (hotel/motels, et al) - in any Code - needing to be > sprinkler protected. I remember reading about the possibility of the pool > being emptied and the pool itself and/or surrounding areas being used for > 'storage' of combustible materials, but that was years ago... > > > > Any assistance will be much appreciated - we are performing a third-party > review and our PE/FPE is stuck. > > > > Regards to All. Gracias!! > > > > > Jerry > [email protected] > > > Jerry D. Watts, SFPE > President & Co-Founder > ACCENT FIRE ENGINEERING INT'L. Ltd. > Santa Fe, New Mexico USA > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Harris <[email protected]> > To: sprinklerforum <[email protected]> > Sent: Wed, Jan 22, 2014 3:09 pm > Subject: RE: Reusing Heads > > > Thanks! > > Brian Harris, CET > BVS Systems Inc. > bvssytemsinc.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] > On Behalf Of Steve Leyton > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 12:34 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Reusing Heads > > It's also in NFPA 25 for good measure. > > > Steve Leyton > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Morey, Mike > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 9:25 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Reusing Heads > > In 2013 6.2.1 (and added clarification in section 6.2.1.1) > > Mike Morey, CFPS, SET > Planner Scheduler/Designer > BMWC Constructors, Inc. > 1740 W. Michigan St, Indianapolis, IN 46222 > O: 317.651.0596 | C: 317.586.8111 > [email protected] | www.bmwc.com > > ________________________________________ > From: [email protected] > [[email protected]] on behalf of Brian > Harris [[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 12:17 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Reusing Heads > > I know I've seen it somewhere but can someone point me to the section of > NFPA-13 that says once you remove a head you have to replace it with a new > one? > > Brian Harris, CET > BVS Systems Inc. > Sprinkler Division > bvssystemsinc.com<http://bvssystemsinc.com/> > Phone: 704.896.9989 > Fax: 704.896.1935 > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler > .org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler > .org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, inventor and engineer (1876-1958) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
