What does a couple of minutes mean if that contingency is built into the design. Isn't the design area essentially the area we have agreed to lose relative to the cost of a system. If zero is the goal you've already failed because there can't be a fire without something (the fuel) being damaged. So we are always sacrificing something, and that is a design parameter. If I per code have to increase the design area by 30% for a dry system I'm agreeing that the conditions of risk, considering costs, is acceptable. If I have cold and can't afford loss I can use a high speed deluge system with spark detection, and all the high costs associated with it and have the absolute minimal FIRE damage. Now we can talk water damage. Oops. And one last question. Why is the time from ignition to a wet head going off acceptable, but two more minutes (stated time) means fully engulfed and total loss? Is there magic involved?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 6:41 PM, rongreenman . <[email protected]>wrote: > Brad, > > If you think a compressor is too much of a waste of energy then I'd > suggest getting rid of your car, going to bed at sundown, eating cold food, > turning the thermostat down to never go on, etc. Waste is using unnecessary > resources. That's a value judgement. Perhaps the cost of running a > compressor is less a cost than the potential of killing or maiming someone, > rolling multiple trucks to fight a post explosion fire, lots of land-fill > debris to process, lots of water expended and then needing processing, and > the materials to rebuild. Then there's the lawyers, and the lawyers, and > the lawyers, and the lawyers to pay for. Did I mention the costly lawyers? > > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Brad Casterline > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> I'm sure future head makers could come up with an RTI so good that 20 >> seconds after Van Dame stuck a lit cigarette to it with chewing gum every >> head in the place would be ready to flow, but what good is that if the >> water takes 2 minutes to get there or the stuff that is right there is >> mixed with fuel? >> >> > On Jan 29, 2014, at 7:27 PM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > Andy, I imagine a Dry System air compressor kicking on and off when >> it's 90F and I think waste of energy and an expansion chamber on an AF >> system only needed when it's hot as a waste of money. Freeze protection is >> only needed a few months a year I most places. We need a 3rd option! >> > >> >> On Jan 29, 2014, at 6:55 PM, Andy <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> Mixing was from years past. I believe the reports. I just passed on a >> job because I would only do a dry system. >> >> Andy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jan 29, 2014, at 7:37 PM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> No Scott please don't tell me how it ends, I have not seen it yet ;) >> seriously, I saw your name on that final report- are you totally Anti Anti >> freeze now, no if ands or buts? >> >>> >> >>>> On Jan 29, 2014, at 6:26 PM, Scott A Futrell <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> A child lit a couch on fire with matches and the sprinkler operated >> with the resulting fireball injuring her and her mother. Official damage >> report: limited to point of origin, except for signs and damage from >> explosion - windows blown out remote from the ignition. >> >>>> >> >>>> Do we need to say more Brad? >> >>>> >> >>>> Scott Futrell >> >>>> >> >>>> (763) 425-1001 x12 Office >> >>>> (612) 759-5556 Cell >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>> From: [email protected] [mailto: >> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad >> Casterline >> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 5:43 PM >> >>>> To: [email protected] >> >>>> Subject: Re: NFPA 25 & Antifreeze Comment(s) RETORT >> >>>> >> >>>> I doubt it offends anyone. I think the biggest factor is the size of >> the fire-- I think I could could set a wadded up pile of shop drawings on >> fire ( appropriate for many jobs I drew) and put the fire out with 100% AF. >> But I would not want to pour it out on 30,000, 100 watt light bulbs :) >> >>>> >> >>>>> On Jan 29, 2014, at 5:34 PM, Andy-Johnston < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> After reading my last post. It was not ment to be continuous. Only >> express my fears of the short cuts the installers may take in the field. >> >>>>> Not ment to offend. >> >>>>> Andy >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -------- Original message -------- >> >>>>> From: Brad Casterline <[email protected]> >> >>>>> Date: 01/29/2014 12:51 PM (GMT-05:00) >> >>>>> To: [email protected] >> >>>>> Subject: RE: NFPA 25 & Antifreeze Comment(s) RETORT >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Good point, I guess for pre-mixed we would not, we would just keep >> >>>>> pumping it in until it was full, never mind, thanks Roland... >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Roland Huggins [mailto:[email protected]] >> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 11:41 AM >> >>>>> To: [email protected] >> >>>>> Subject: Re: NFPA 25 & Antifreeze Comment(s) RETORT >> >>>>> >> >>>>> HUH???? What does the system volume have to do with it? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering >> >>>>> American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves >> Lives >> >>>>> Dallas, TX >> >>>>> http://www.firesprinkler.org >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Jan 28, 2014, at 6:52 PM, Brad Casterline < >> [email protected]> >> >>>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> And this focus on 'percent by volume' has got to be the silliest >> >>>>>> aspect of >> >>>>> this whole mess, as if we know the exact cubic feet of the inside of >> >>>>> all the pipe and fittings ;) >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >> >>>>> er.org >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >> >>>>> er.org _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >> >>>>> er.org >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>>> [email protected] >> >>>> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>>> [email protected] >> >>>> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>> [email protected] >> >>> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > > A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, > inventor and engineer (1876-1958) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. 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