I don't know Ron, you're going too fast. I like plain old water ready to go more than built-in contingencies. I'm still wondering how you know I get home from work, eat cold chicken, forget to watch The State of the Union, cool the beer on the back porch, etc ...
> On Jan 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, "rongreenman ." <[email protected]> wrote: > > What does a couple of minutes mean if that contingency is built into the > design. Isn't the design area essentially the area we have agreed to lose > relative to the cost of a system. If zero is the goal you've already failed > because there can't be a fire without something (the fuel) being damaged. > So we are always sacrificing something, and that is a design parameter. If > I per code have to increase the design area by 30% for a dry system I'm > agreeing that the conditions of risk, considering costs, is acceptable. If > I have cold and can't afford loss I can use a high speed deluge system with > spark detection, and all the high costs associated with it and have the > absolute minimal FIRE damage. Now we can talk water damage. Oops. And one > last question. Why is the time from ignition to a wet head going off > acceptable, but two more minutes (stated time) means fully engulfed and > total loss? Is there magic involved? > > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 6:41 PM, rongreenman . <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Brad, >> >> If you think a compressor is too much of a waste of energy then I'd >> suggest getting rid of your car, going to bed at sundown, eating cold food, >> turning the thermostat down to never go on, etc. Waste is using unnecessary >> resources. That's a value judgement. Perhaps the cost of running a >> compressor is less a cost than the potential of killing or maiming someone, >> rolling multiple trucks to fight a post explosion fire, lots of land-fill >> debris to process, lots of water expended and then needing processing, and >> the materials to rebuild. Then there's the lawyers, and the lawyers, and >> the lawyers, and the lawyers to pay for. Did I mention the costly lawyers? >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Brad Casterline >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> I'm sure future head makers could come up with an RTI so good that 20 >>> seconds after Van Dame stuck a lit cigarette to it with chewing gum every >>> head in the place would be ready to flow, but what good is that if the >>> water takes 2 minutes to get there or the stuff that is right there is >>> mixed with fuel? >>> >>>> On Jan 29, 2014, at 7:27 PM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Andy, I imagine a Dry System air compressor kicking on and off when >>> it's 90F and I think waste of energy and an expansion chamber on an AF >>> system only needed when it's hot as a waste of money. Freeze protection is >>> only needed a few months a year I most places. We need a 3rd option! >>>> >>>>> On Jan 29, 2014, at 6:55 PM, Andy <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Mixing was from years past. I believe the reports. I just passed on a >>> job because I would only do a dry system. >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 29, 2014, at 7:37 PM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> No Scott please don't tell me how it ends, I have not seen it yet ;) >>> seriously, I saw your name on that final report- are you totally Anti Anti >>> freeze now, no if ands or buts? >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 29, 2014, at 6:26 PM, Scott A Futrell <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A child lit a couch on fire with matches and the sprinkler operated >>> with the resulting fireball injuring her and her mother. Official damage >>> report: limited to point of origin, except for signs and damage from >>> explosion - windows blown out remote from the ignition. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Do we need to say more Brad? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Scott Futrell >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (763) 425-1001 x12 Office >>>>>>> (612) 759-5556 Cell >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto: >>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad >>> Casterline >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 5:43 PM >>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>> Subject: Re: NFPA 25 & Antifreeze Comment(s) RETORT >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I doubt it offends anyone. I think the biggest factor is the size of >>> the fire-- I think I could could set a wadded up pile of shop drawings on >>> fire ( appropriate for many jobs I drew) and put the fire out with 100% AF. >>> But I would not want to pour it out on 30,000, 100 watt light bulbs :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 29, 2014, at 5:34 PM, Andy-Johnston < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> After reading my last post. It was not ment to be continuous. Only >>> express my fears of the short cuts the installers may take in the field. >>>>>>>> Not ment to offend. >>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>>>>>> From: Brad Casterline <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Date: 01/29/2014 12:51 PM (GMT-05:00) >>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: NFPA 25 & Antifreeze Comment(s) RETORT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Good point, I guess for pre-mixed we would not, we would just keep >>>>>>>> pumping it in until it was full, never mind, thanks Roland... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Roland Huggins [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 11:41 AM >>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: NFPA 25 & Antifreeze Comment(s) RETORT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> HUH???? What does the system volume have to do with it? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering >>>>>>>> American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves >>> Lives >>>>>>>> Dallas, TX >>>>>>>> http://www.firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2014, at 6:52 PM, Brad Casterline < >>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And this focus on 'percent by volume' has got to be the silliest >>>>>>>>> aspect of >>>>>>>> this whole mess, as if we know the exact cubic feet of the inside of >>>>>>>> all the pipe and fittings ;) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>>>>>> er.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>>>>>> er.org _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>>>>>> er.org >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Ron Greenman >> Instructor >> Fire Protection Engineering Technology >> Bates Technical College >> 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >> Tacoma, WA 98405 >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ >> >> 253.680.7346 >> 253.576.9700 (cell) >> >> Member: >> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC >> >> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis >> Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >> >> A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, >> inventor and engineer (1876-1958) >> > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, > essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > > A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, > inventor and engineer (1876-1958) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
