Peter- Much appreciated. Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. bvssytemsinc.com
-----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pete Schwab Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 3:03 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Flow vs Hydraulic calc's Brian A.11.1.4.2 Appropriate area/density, other design criteria, and water supply requirements should be based on scientifically based engineering analyses that can include submitted fire testing, calculations, or results from appropriate computational models. Recommended water supplies anticipate successful sprinkler operation. Because of the small but still significant number of uncontrolled fires in sprinklered properties, which have various causes, there should be an adequate water supply available for fire department use. The hose stream demand required by this standard is intended to provide the fire department with the extra flow they need to conduct mop-up operations and final extinguishment of a fire at a sprinklered property. This is not the fire department manual fire flow, which is determined by other codes or standards. However, it is not the intent of this standard to require that the sprinkler demand be added to the manual fire flow demand required by other codes and standards. While the other codes and standards can factor in the presence of a sprinkler system in the determination of the manual fire flow requirement, the sprinkler system water demand and manual fire flow demand are intended to be separate standalone calculations. NFPA 1 emphasizes this fact by the statement in A.18.4.1 that "It is not the intent to add the minimum fire protection water supplies, such as for a sprinkler system, to the minimum fire flow for manual fire suppression purposes required by this section." Peter Schwab VP of Purchasing and Engineering technologies Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers Inc. 222 Capitol Court Ocoee, Fl 34761 Mobile: (407) 468-8248 Direct: (407) 877-5570 Fax: (407) 656-8026 www.waynefire.com -----Original Message----- From: Pete Schwab Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 1:59 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Flow vs Hydraulic calc's See NFPA 13 2016 Edition A.11.1.4.2 Peter Schwab VP of Purchasing and Engineering technologies Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers Inc. 222 Capitol Court Ocoee, Fl 34761 Mobile: (407) 468-8248 Direct: (407) 877-5570 Fax: (407) 656-8026 www.waynefire.com -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Duane Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 1:48 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Flow vs Hydraulic calc's To add, the fire flow is based on construction type, building height/area, and occupancy...items definitely not found in NFPA 13. The IFC has one method. ISO has another method. Duane Johnson, PE Design Manager Strickland Fire Protection 5113 Berwyn Road College Park, MD 20740 301-474-1136 Office 301-455-0010 Cell -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matt Grise Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 1:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Flow vs Hydraulic calc's Check the IBC/IFC (index... not sure what section). Fire Flow is the amount of water required to be delivered by the fire hydrants for the FD to spray on a burning building. The amount required is dictated by the code, but the actual water available is determined entirely by the underground piping. Unless you are providing or designing the underground loops around the building, it is probably out of your control. Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP, NICET II Sales Engineer Alliance Fire Protection 130 w 9th Ave. North Kansas City, MO 64116 *Licensed in KS & MO 913.888.0647 ph 913.888.0618 f 913.526.7443 cell www. AFPsprink.com -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 12:47 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Fire Flow vs Hydraulic calc's Can someone please put into laymen's terms the difference between doing a fire flow demand calc for the underground and the hydraulic calc's for the sprinkler system? We have been running into some projects lately where the civil engineer tries to pawn sizing the underground off onto the sprinkler contractor. I try telling them that's their responsibility not ours but I'd like something more definitive to have on hand. Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. 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