I can tell you that without the thousand square feet areas the heads would not pass the test for listing, so the draft curtains are no joke.
Travis, how big are these apartments? I was under the impression that dwelling units needed separation assemblies between units... On Friday, February 12, 2016, Travis Mack, SET <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes. I am hoping to be able to track down the tests for the UL listing. > That would explain a lot, I am sure. > > Travis Mack, SET > MFP Design, LLC > 2508 E Lodgepole Drive > Gilbert, AZ 85298 > 480-505-9271 > fax: 866-430-6107 > email:[email protected] > > http://www.mfpdesign.com > https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 > Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign > > On 2/12/2016 10:07 AM, Brad Casterline wrote: > >> Ok, thanks. >> >> It would be interesting to find out what Tyco used during the U.L. >> listing! >> The last I downloaded was for attic heads (very interesting stuff) but >> that >> was several years ago, and I looked for it again a few years ago but it >> had >> become too proprietary if I remember right. >> On Feb 12, 2016 10:47 AM, "Travis Mack, SET" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Concealed combustible space less than 36" deep with slope less than 2:12. >>> Therefore, specially listed sprinklers are required per 8.15.1.6. Then, >>> you go to the datasheet and draft curtains required. >>> >>> That requirement has been in the standard since 2002. It was further >>> clarified in the 2007 edition. I don't think it has changed since 2007. >>> The CC3 sprinklers are relatively new to get the 16' spacing. Used to be >>> max 12' spacing 144 sq ft with the Viking COIN and Tyco CC1/CC2. >>> >>> Travis Mack, SET >>> MFP Design, LLC >>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive >>> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >>> 480-505-9271 >>> fax: 866-430-6107 >>> email:[email protected] >>> >>> http://www.mfpdesign.com >>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>> >>> On 2/12/2016 9:40 AM, Brad Casterline wrote: >>> >>> Good advice Travis, I'll try to start thinking for myself. >>>> >>>> Why CC sprinklers though if this is your case? >>>> >>>> Brad >>>> On Feb 12, 2016 10:32 AM, "Travis Mack, SET" <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Think outside your bubble. Tyco CC3...16' max spacing...5.6k >>>> sprinkler... >>>> >>>>> Things are constantly evolving in this industry. You have to stay on >>>>> the >>>>> edge to always keep up to date on available products. It can be a full >>>>> time job just doing that. >>>>> >>>>> Travis Mack, SET >>>>> MFP Design, LLC >>>>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive >>>>> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >>>>> 480-505-9271 >>>>> fax: 866-430-6107 >>>>> email:[email protected] >>>>> >>>>> http://www.mfpdesign.com >>>>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>>>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/2016 9:28 AM, Brad Casterline wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I'm thinking very quick activation time, 10 x 10 max, min 10 psi on a >>>>> 2.8 >>>>> >>>>>> K, in a small volume--- I get visions not unlike what I imagine high >>>>>> efficiency water mist systems might look like-- >>>>>> But I am not the mnf rep, pe, t.c. member or ahj-- >>>>>> >>>>>> B >>>>>> On Feb 12, 2016 10:16 AM, "Travis Mack, SET" <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The max application for CC3 is 60". However, it is not the height. It >>>>>> is >>>>>> >>>>>> the sheer number of them that are needed. Don't think single >>>>>>> building. >>>>>>> Think apartment complex...multiple buildings / multiple floors. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Travis Mack, SET >>>>>>> MFP Design, LLC >>>>>>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive >>>>>>> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >>>>>>> 480-505-9271 >>>>>>> fax: 866-430-6107 >>>>>>> email:[email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.mfpdesign.com >>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>>>>>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/12/2016 8:57 AM, Brad Casterline wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For crying out loud though, isn't the max 'ceiling height' for this >>>>>>> >>>>>>> application THREE FEET? >>>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2016 9:54 AM, "Travis Mack, SET" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You and I are on the same page. We were just hoping to get a >>>>>>>> definitive >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> answer from the manufacturer. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Travis Mack, SET >>>>>>>>> MFP Design, LLC >>>>>>>>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive >>>>>>>>> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >>>>>>>>> 480-505-9271 >>>>>>>>> fax: 866-430-6107 >>>>>>>>> email:[email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.mfpdesign.com >>>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>>>>>>>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 2/12/2016 8:53 AM, Ed Kramer wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The AHJ is going to have to make the final call. My pay scale >>>>>>>>> isn't >>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> enough to make those types decisions, but if it were, I'd say no. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>>> water >>>>>>>>>> spray from the 1st sprinkler or 2 damages the insulation to allow >>>>>>>>>> heat >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> flow past it, you've lost your heat barrier and the 1000 sf design >>>>>>>>>> area >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> out-the-window. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Back to my regularly scheduled program. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ed Kramer >>>>>>>>>> Bamford Fire Sprinkler >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]] >>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 9:28 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Tyco CC sprinklers / draft curtain >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That is what the contractor is arguing. The NFPA 13 definitions >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> draft >>>>>>>>>> curtains are in reference to separation of ESFR and SR, water >>>>>>>>>> spray >>>>>>>>>> systems >>>>>>>>>> and hazard separation. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It is an outside the box thinking for sure. As you say, if it is >>>>>>>>>> stapled >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> the deck, that would prevent heat from passing through and over. >>>>>>>>>> That >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> the only criteria in the datasheet. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Travis Mack, SET >>>>>>>>>> MFP Design, LLC >>>>>>>>>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive >>>>>>>>>> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >>>>>>>>>> 480-505-9271 >>>>>>>>>> fax: 866-430-6107 >>>>>>>>>> email:[email protected] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.mfpdesign.com >>>>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>>>>>>>>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 2/12/2016 8:19 AM, Matthew J Willis wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LOL. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I say it does meet it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Insulation by default blocks heat.. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> R/ >>>>>>>>>>> Matt >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Matthew J. Willis >>>>>>>>>>> Project Manager >>>>>>>>>>> Rapid Fire Protection Inc. >>>>>>>>>>> *NEW ADDRESS* >>>>>>>>>>> 1530 Samco Road >>>>>>>>>>> Rapid City, SD 57702 >>>>>>>>>>> Office-605.348.2342 >>>>>>>>>>> Direct Line-605.593.5063 >>>>>>>>>>> Cell-605.391.2733 >>>>>>>>>>> Fax:-605.348.0108 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: Sprinklerforum >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>> Of >>>>>>>>>>> Travis Mack >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 8:16 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Tyco CC sprinklers / draft curtain >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Well, the customer called Tyco and they could not say >>>>>>>>>>> definitively >>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> insulation would meet the requirements or not. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Travis Mack, SET >>>>>>>>>>> MFP Design, LLC >>>>>>>>>>> "Follow" us on Facebook: >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>>>>>>>>>> Send large files to MFP Design via: >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2016, at 4:49 PM, Travis Mack, SET < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I have a customer that is asking if batt insulation can be >>>>>>>>>>> secured >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> roof decking and used as a draft curtain for the Tyco CC >>>>>>>>>>> sprinklers. I >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> never seen an application such as this, but it doesn't seem to be >>>>>>>>>> prohibited >>>>>>>>>> in the datasheet. The only requirement is that it must be >>>>>>>>>> constructed >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> material so that heat can not pass through or over. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What do you think? Could insulation secured to the roof/floor >>>>>>>>>> deck >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> serve >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> as a draft curtain for these sprinklers? My gut feeling is that >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> not be suitable, but I can't find something in the data sheet to >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>>>> that. My only thought is that activation of a sprinkler could >>>>>>>>>> possibly >>>>>>>>>> knock the insulation down. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Travis Mack, SET >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> MFP Design, LLC >>>>>>>>>>>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive >>>>>>>>>>>> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >>>>>>>>>>>> 480-505-9271 >>>>>>>>>>>> fax: 866-430-6107 >>>>>>>>>>>> email:[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mfpdesign.com >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>>>>>>>>>>> Send large files to us via: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >>>>>>>>>>>> ler.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>>>>>>>>> er.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>>>>>>>>> er.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > -- Benjamin Young _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
