Ok, thanks. It would be interesting to find out what Tyco used during the U.L. listing! The last I downloaded was for attic heads (very interesting stuff) but that was several years ago, and I looked for it again a few years ago but it had become too proprietary if I remember right. On Feb 12, 2016 10:47 AM, "Travis Mack, SET" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Concealed combustible space less than 36" deep with slope less than 2:12. > Therefore, specially listed sprinklers are required per 8.15.1.6. Then, > you go to the datasheet and draft curtains required. > > That requirement has been in the standard since 2002. It was further > clarified in the 2007 edition. I don't think it has changed since 2007. > The CC3 sprinklers are relatively new to get the 16' spacing. Used to be > max 12' spacing 144 sq ft with the Viking COIN and Tyco CC1/CC2. > > Travis Mack, SET > MFP Design, LLC > 2508 E Lodgepole Drive > Gilbert, AZ 85298 > 480-505-9271 > fax: 866-430-6107 > email:[email protected] > > http://www.mfpdesign.com > https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 > Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign > > On 2/12/2016 9:40 AM, Brad Casterline wrote: > >> Good advice Travis, I'll try to start thinking for myself. >> >> Why CC sprinklers though if this is your case? >> >> Brad >> On Feb 12, 2016 10:32 AM, "Travis Mack, SET" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Think outside your bubble. Tyco CC3...16' max spacing...5.6k sprinkler... >>> >>> Things are constantly evolving in this industry. You have to stay on the >>> edge to always keep up to date on available products. It can be a full >>> time job just doing that. >>> >>> Travis Mack, SET >>> MFP Design, LLC >>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive >>> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >>> 480-505-9271 >>> fax: 866-430-6107 >>> email:[email protected] >>> >>> http://www.mfpdesign.com >>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>> >>> On 2/12/2016 9:28 AM, Brad Casterline wrote: >>> >>> I'm thinking very quick activation time, 10 x 10 max, min 10 psi on a 2.8 >>>> K, in a small volume--- I get visions not unlike what I imagine high >>>> efficiency water mist systems might look like-- >>>> But I am not the mnf rep, pe, t.c. member or ahj-- >>>> >>>> B >>>> On Feb 12, 2016 10:16 AM, "Travis Mack, SET" <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> The max application for CC3 is 60". However, it is not the height. It >>>> is >>>> >>>>> the sheer number of them that are needed. Don't think single building. >>>>> Think apartment complex...multiple buildings / multiple floors. >>>>> >>>>> Travis Mack, SET >>>>> MFP Design, LLC >>>>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive >>>>> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >>>>> 480-505-9271 >>>>> fax: 866-430-6107 >>>>> email:[email protected] >>>>> >>>>> http://www.mfpdesign.com >>>>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>>>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/2016 8:57 AM, Brad Casterline wrote: >>>>> >>>>> For crying out loud though, isn't the max 'ceiling height' for this >>>>> >>>>>> application THREE FEET? >>>>>> On Feb 12, 2016 9:54 AM, "Travis Mack, SET" <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> You and I are on the same page. We were just hoping to get a >>>>>> definitive >>>>>> >>>>>> answer from the manufacturer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Travis Mack, SET >>>>>>> MFP Design, LLC >>>>>>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive >>>>>>> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >>>>>>> 480-505-9271 >>>>>>> fax: 866-430-6107 >>>>>>> email:[email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.mfpdesign.com >>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>>>>>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/12/2016 8:53 AM, Ed Kramer wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The AHJ is going to have to make the final call. My pay scale isn't >>>>>>> high >>>>>>> >>>>>>> enough to make those types decisions, but if it were, I'd say no. >>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>> water >>>>>>>> spray from the 1st sprinkler or 2 damages the insulation to allow >>>>>>>> heat >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> flow past it, you've lost your heat barrier and the 1000 sf design >>>>>>>> area >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> out-the-window. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Back to my regularly scheduled program. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ed Kramer >>>>>>>> Bamford Fire Sprinkler >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: >>>>>>>> [email protected]] >>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 9:28 AM >>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Tyco CC sprinklers / draft curtain >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That is what the contractor is arguing. The NFPA 13 definitions of >>>>>>>> draft >>>>>>>> curtains are in reference to separation of ESFR and SR, water spray >>>>>>>> systems >>>>>>>> and hazard separation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is an outside the box thinking for sure. As you say, if it is >>>>>>>> stapled >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> the deck, that would prevent heat from passing through and over. >>>>>>>> That >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> the only criteria in the datasheet. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Travis Mack, SET >>>>>>>> MFP Design, LLC >>>>>>>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive >>>>>>>> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >>>>>>>> 480-505-9271 >>>>>>>> fax: 866-430-6107 >>>>>>>> email:[email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.mfpdesign.com >>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>>>>>>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2/12/2016 8:19 AM, Matthew J Willis wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> LOL. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I say it does meet it. >>>>>>>>> Insulation by default blocks heat.. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> R/ >>>>>>>>> Matt >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Matthew J. Willis >>>>>>>>> Project Manager >>>>>>>>> Rapid Fire Protection Inc. >>>>>>>>> *NEW ADDRESS* >>>>>>>>> 1530 Samco Road >>>>>>>>> Rapid City, SD 57702 >>>>>>>>> Office-605.348.2342 >>>>>>>>> Direct Line-605.593.5063 >>>>>>>>> Cell-605.391.2733 >>>>>>>>> Fax:-605.348.0108 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: Sprinklerforum >>>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >>>>>>>>> Of >>>>>>>>> Travis Mack >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 8:16 AM >>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Tyco CC sprinklers / draft curtain >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Well, the customer called Tyco and they could not say definitively >>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> insulation would meet the requirements or not. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Travis Mack, SET >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> MFP Design, LLC >>>>>>>>> "Follow" us on Facebook: >>>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>>>>>>>> Send large files to MFP Design via: >>>>>>>>> https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2016, at 4:49 PM, Travis Mack, SET <[email protected] >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> I have a customer that is asking if batt insulation can be secured >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> roof decking and used as a draft curtain for the Tyco CC >>>>>>>>> sprinklers. I >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> never seen an application such as this, but it doesn't seem to be >>>>>>>> prohibited >>>>>>>> in the datasheet. The only requirement is that it must be >>>>>>>> constructed >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> material so that heat can not pass through or over. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What do you think? Could insulation secured to the roof/floor deck >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> serve >>>>>>>>> as a draft curtain for these sprinklers? My gut feeling is that it >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> not be suitable, but I can't find something in the data sheet to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>> that. My only thought is that activation of a sprinkler could >>>>>>>> possibly >>>>>>>> knock the insulation down. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Travis Mack, SET >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> MFP Design, LLC >>>>>>>>>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive >>>>>>>>>> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >>>>>>>>>> 480-505-9271 >>>>>>>>>> fax: 866-430-6107 >>>>>>>>>> email:[email protected] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.mfpdesign.com >>>>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>>>>>>>>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >>>>>>>>>> ler.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>>>>>>> er.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>>>>>>> er.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
