Just a great reminder for us all to be diligent on this issue. Thank you for 
sharing Steve!

Rod at Rapid Fire

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On 
Behalf Of Steve Leyton
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 11:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: UG 5 ft outside building

Several years ago we got an urgent early AM call that "our" fire pump had gone 
off overnight, blown up an 8" discharge main and flooded out the main kitchen 
of a convention center-sized high-rise hotel here in San Diego.   We were ... 
obviously perplexed, but there was (as they so aptly said in "Holy Grail") TOO 
MUCH PERIL as everybody was freaking out by the destruction of their kitchen, 
interruption of training and general chaos less than two weeks from Grand 
Opening.    We had the pump checked thoroughly by an AC field tech, we had the 
JP checked thoroughly by a Grundfos field tech and we were all standing around 
scratching our butts when our very experienced foreman got the bright idea to 
look at the controllers.   Jockey controller pressure switch clogged with mud.  
We broke the pump suction and discharge piping down and found traces of silt 
everywhere.   We went downstream to the first combined standpipe riser and took 
the floor control assembly apart and found silt in 
 that too.   So we went back to the permit signature cards and ... lo and 
behold the plumbing contractor who installed the fire service lateral couldn't 
produce any evidence of a flush.  They SWORE they did it and became fairly 
belligerent in their defense, but the bottom line was that there was no record 
of a flush.  Our bad for connecting (this was a long time ago, protocols have 
tightened) but the damage done was profound and cost dozens or hundreds of 
thousands of dollars.   Ultimately, the other guy was found liable and we got 
paid a hefty additive change to purge our system of silt to the greatest extent 
possible.   

That incident greatly shaped my opinion on this issue; when I made reference 
yesterday to contractors pointing fingers at each other, this is the scenario.  
 And, I've been one of those contractors ...

SML 

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On 
Behalf Of Scott Futrell
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 7:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: UG 5 ft outside building

And in most of the jurisdictions I work in it is flushed with a garden hose 
only.  You'd be surprised by the green grass, asphalt, rocks, sticks, burlap 
and so I find when it is flushed properly when we tear them apart to find out 
what went wrong.

I've had the same UG contractor tell me he never flushes them only to have me 
remind him he always does on my projects.

Commissioning project on State Capitol new fire pump recently where we had them 
flush the UG the day before the pump test (acceptance) because it had not been 
flushed to 1860 gpm...they only did it after I told the GC he bought the pump 
if we hear rocks or anything of the sort.

Scott

Office: (763) 425-1001 x 202
Cell: (612) 759-5556

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On 
Behalf Of Steve Leyton
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 11:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: UG 5 ft outside building

That's pretty much the issue now isn't it? In most of the jurisdictions where 
we work, if the work is divided as we are discussing, then to hydrostatic test 
and two flushes are required. The problem for the owner is when a leak occurs 
or some sort of inspection card goes missing, and then you have two different 
contractors pointing their fingers at each other.


Steve


-------- Original message --------
From: Scott Futrell <[email protected]>
Date: 3/29/2016 7:15 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: UG 5 ft outside building

Who flushes all of it in accordance with 13 & 24? Who accepts the liability for 
all of it?

Scott

Office: (763) 425-1001 x 202
Cell: (612) 759-5556
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