Don,

I just wanted to add that I have seen sidewalls and pendants for column
protection accepted also. I suppose the reasoning is that the columns are
not the building contents determining the hazard classification. And
sprinklers are just one of a few methods for protecting the columns.

good catch by the way with your clip,

Brad
On Aug 10, 2016 2:13 PM, "IPA" <[email protected]> wrote:

> There we go... the justification for the horizontally mounted pendants.
> Thank you!
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Don Casey <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Heads get used in ways they haven’t been listed in multiple scenarios.
>>
>>
>>
>> One easy one is for protecting steel columns when working with NFPA 15.
>> I’ve used both pens and sidewalls depending on the configuration.
>>
>>
>>
>> In a duct, we’re typically looking to dump a certain amount of water into
>> the duct which can be achieved using a sidewall or a pendant.
>>
>>
>>
>> Side note: a pen in a vertical duct  would not be installed per it’s
>> listing and in a horizontal duct, it won’t meet the obstruction rules
>> unless the duct diameter was greater than 18inches.
>>
>>
>>
>> As long as you can calculate the head(s) to deliver/operate at the
>> flows/pressures stated by the applicable Standard (13 or 33 in this case)
>> and is designed to operate at the minimum pressure as specified by the
>> head’s listing (okay….not likely to come into play unless you wanted to use
>> a K25 head and even then).
>>
>>
>>
>> Lastly, if you’re a stamping professional, you can come up with any
>> design you think will work (which you’ve presumably based on data,
>> experience, calculations, etc.).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces
>> @lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *[email protected]
>> *Sent:* 2016/08/10 1:46 PM
>>
>> *To:* [email protected]
>> *Subject:* RE: Paint spray application
>>
>>
>>
>> Ductwork is like protecting specialty equipment, there isn’t necessarily
>> a box you can put it in when it comes to NFPA 13 occupancies.  You have to
>> be able to analyze the process and determine the hazard before you can
>> assign a protection scheme for things such as this.
>>
>>
>>
>> One additional tool in the designer’s toolbox is the FM Global data
>> sheets.  NFPA 13 doesn’t always address every single possible protection
>> scheme where a water based sprinkler would be beneficial.  If you have
>> questions about a particular application you can refer to other recognized
>> industry Standards for additional information and insight.
>>
>>
>>
>> The owner doesn’t have to be FM insured to be able to use this data to
>> defend or establish a design criteria for unique applications that NFPA may
>> not address.  I have yet to run across an AHJ that rejected the use of FM
>> Global criteria when NFPA didn’t address the situation.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Craig L. Prahl*
>> Fire Protection Group Lead/SME
>> *CH2M*
>> 200 Verdae Blvd.
>> Greenville, SC  29607
>> Direct - 864.920.7540
>>
>> Fax - 864.920.7129
>>
>> CH2MHILL Extension  77540
>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces
>> @lists.firesprinkler.org <[email protected]>]
>> *On Behalf Of *Brad Casterline
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:03 PM
>> *To:* [email protected]
>> *Subject:* RE: Paint spray application [EXTERNAL]
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, it's all I got.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think there is a little wiggle room regarding occupancy classification.
>> For example, in the duct we can be max 12'-0" whilst outside the duct it is
>> 10' max.
>>
>> That's a little weak, but, seeing as how I am a NICET certified
>> engineering technician I see no wiggle room in using a sprinkler outside
>> it's listing. I believe like you that deflector orientation in a duct is a
>> non-issue due to deflectors determine the pattern at the floor, butt....
>>
>>
>>
>> see "Ken's well known aversion to courtrooms" for details :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>>
>> ps, thank you, and you too Bob, for helping me out of the doldrums
>> yesterday
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces
>> @lists.firesprinkler.org <[email protected]>]
>> *On Behalf Of *[email protected]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 7:44 AM
>> *To:* [email protected]
>> *Subject:* RE: Paint spray application
>>
>>
>>
>> How do you know the quantity of combustibles?
>>
>>
>>
>> Typically the issues with ductwork is based on a hazardous environment
>> (transporting flammable or combustible vapors or combustible particulate)
>> that’s the whole reason behind the requirement of protection of the
>> ductwork.  The other condition is that there is accumulation of the same
>> material on the interior of the duct over time creating a hazardous
>> environment.
>>
>>
>>
>> So in either case there is no way to call it an ordinary hazard
>> environment.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Craig L. Prahl*
>> Fire Protection Group Lead/SME
>> *CH2M*
>> 200 Verdae Blvd.
>> Greenville, SC  29607
>> Direct - 864.920.7540
>>
>> Fax - 864.920.7129
>>
>> CH2MHILL Extension  77540
>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces
>> @lists.firesprinkler.org <[email protected]>]
>> *On Behalf Of *Brad Casterline
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:40 AM
>> *To:* [email protected]
>> *Subject:* RE: Paint spray application [EXTERNAL]
>>
>>
>>
>> To be completely formal, is it possible to consider the duct to be an OH
>> portion of the EH Classification? Not much quantity of combustible there.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
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