Thank you for chiming in on this subject. I did end up rejecting the plans. The duct wasn't the only portion of the paint spray application using HSW. Thanks again.
On Thursday, August 11, 2016, Roland Huggins <[email protected]> wrote: > OK Boys and Girls. This horse is dead and starting to smell. Time to > move on. > > Thanks, Roland > > > Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering > American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives > Dallas, TX > http://www.firesprinkler.org > > > > On Aug 11, 2016, at 7:43 AM, Todd Williams <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > > Sprinklers water my garden (at 3am when no one is looking). We install > pipes but people smoke things in pipes. > > I've always used pendent sprinklers in duct applications, in spite of > their actual orientation, because they would give the best water > distribution. > > Sent using CloudMagic Email > <https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.8&pv=9.2.1&source=email_footer_2> > > On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 10:35 AM, [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> <Cra > [email protected] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> > wrote: > > You forgot that buildings are sprinklered not sprinkled. > > BTW, NFPA 13 uses the term “head” quite often when speaking of sprinklers. > > *Craig L. Prahl* > Fire Protection Group Lead/SME > *CH2M* > 200 Verdae Blvd. > Greenville, SC 29607 > Direct - 864.920.7540 > Fax - 864.920.7129 > CH2MHILL Extension 77540 > [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]. > org > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > ] *On Behalf Of *Steve Leyton > *Sent:* Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:00 AM > *To:* [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Subject:* RE: Paint spray application [EXTERNAL] > > Pendents. A pendant is a piece of jewelry. We use hangers. Airplanes are > stored in hangars. There is no such thing as a sprinkler head. That is all > for today. > > Steve > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Brad Casterline <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> > Date: 8/11/16 4:28 AM (GMT-08:00) > To: [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > Subject: Re: Paint spray application > > > Don, > > I just wanted to add that I have seen sidewalls and pendants for column > protection accepted also. I suppose the reasoning is that the columns are > not the building contents determining the hazard classification. And > sprinklers are just one of a few methods for protecting the columns. > > good catch by the way with your clip, > > Brad > On Aug 10, 2016 2:13 PM, "IPA" <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > > There we go... the justification for the horizontally mounted pendants. > Thank you! > > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Don Casey <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > > > Heads get used in ways they haven’t been listed in multiple scenarios. > > One easy one is for protecting steel columns when working with NFPA 15. I’ve > used both pens and sidewalls depending on the configuration. > > In a duct, we’re typically looking to dump a certain amount of water into > the duct which can be achieved using a sidewall or a pendant. > > Side note: a pen in a vertical duct would not be installed per it’s > listing and in a horizontal duct, it won’t meet the obstruction rules > unless the duct diameter was greater than 18inches. > > As long as you can calculate the head(s) to deliver/operate at the > flows/pressures stated by the applicable Standard (13 or 33 in this case) > and is designed to operate at the minimum pressure as specified by the > head’s listing (okay….not likely to come into play unless you wanted to use > a K25 head and even then). > > Lastly, if you’re a stamping professional, you can come up with any design > you think will work (which you’ve presumably based on data, experience, > calculations, etc.). > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]. > org > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > ] *On Behalf Of *[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Sent:* 2016/08/10 1:46 PM > > *To:* [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Subject:* RE: Paint spray application > > Ductwork is like protecting specialty equipment, there isn’t necessarily a > box you can put it in when it comes to NFPA 13 occupancies. You have to > be able to analyze the process and determine the hazard before you can > assign a protection scheme for things such as this. > > One additional tool in the designer’s toolbox is the FM Global data > sheets. NFPA 13 doesn’t always address every single possible protection > scheme where a water based sprinkler would be beneficial. If you have > questions about a particular application you can refer to other recognized > industry Standards for additional information and insight. > > The owner doesn’t have to be FM insured to be able to use this data to > defend or establish a design criteria for unique applications that NFPA may > not address. I have yet to run across an AHJ that rejected the use of FM > Global criteria when NFPA didn’t address the situation. > > > *Craig L. Prahl* > Fire Protection Group Lead/SME > *CH2M* > 200 Verdae Blvd. > Greenville, SC 29607 > Direct - 864.920.7540 > Fax - 864.920.7129 > > CH2MHILL Extension 77540 > [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]. > org > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > ] *On Behalf Of *Brad Casterline > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:03 PM > *To:* [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Subject:* RE: Paint spray application [EXTERNAL] > > Well, it's all I got. > > I think there is a little wiggle room regarding occupancy classification. > For example, in the duct we can be max 12'-0" whilst outside the duct it is > 10' max. > That's a little weak, but, seeing as how I am a NICET certified > engineering technician I see no wiggle room in using a sprinkler outside > it's listing. I believe like you that deflector orientation in a duct is a > non-issue due to deflectors determine the pattern at the floor, butt.... > > see "Ken's well known aversion to courtrooms" for details :) > > Brad > > ps, thank you, and you too Bob, for helping me out of the doldrums > yesterday > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]. > org > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > ] *On Behalf Of *[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 7:44 AM > *To:* [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Subject:* RE: Paint spray application > > How do you know the quantity of combustibles? > > Typically the issues with ductwork is based on a hazardous environment > (transporting flammable or combustible vapors or combustible particulate) > that’s the whole reason behind the requirement of protection of the > ductwork. The other condition is that there is accumulation of the same > material on the interior of the duct over time creating a hazardous > environment. > > So in either case there is no way to call it an ordinary hazard > environment. > > > *Craig L. Prahl* > Fire Protection Group Lead/SME > *CH2M* > 200 Verdae Blvd. > Greenville, SC 29607 > Direct - 864.920.7540 > Fax - 864.920.7129 > > CH2MHILL Extension 77540 > [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]. > org > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > ] *On Behalf Of *Brad Casterline > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:40 AM > *To:* [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Subject:* RE: Paint spray application [EXTERNAL] > > > To be completely formal, is it possible to consider the duct to be an OH > portion of the EH Classification? Not much quantity of combustible there. > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler. > org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler. > org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler. > org > > >
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