Very badly is how the molten metal would react to sprinkler water. But it really depends on a lot of things around the process.
In steel and aluminum mills they are typically considered F-2 occupancies and no sprinkler protection is required. We use alternative means such as localized CO2 systems on equipment. But this exercise had a lot of unknowns so what really needs to be done cannot be and should not be determined here. Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Fire Protection SME – EV, AM, DC, Special Hazards [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | www.jacobs.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.jacobs.com/__;!!KZTdOCjhgt4hgw!-_khxU8gU0_6jc895I7kRbnU8JghRDsWgqOblZ4jr7Qp2IVbR30VYw_hWvNFtphnl0uWpB9KIvbYi1pvZz4$> 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 CONTACT BY: Phone 1-864-676-5252, Email or MS TEAMS From: Fpdcdesign <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 7:45 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Sprinklerforum] Re: Metal manufacturing Craig pretty much summed up my thoughts. But to add to that, if you are dealing with molten materials for 3D printing, which could be in the thousands of degrees, how would sprinkler water react with that? Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080<tel:860-535-2080> (ofc) 860-554-7054<tel:860-554-7054> (fax) 860-608-4559<tel:860-608-4559> (cell) On Oct 24, 2024 at 5:29 PM, <Craig Prahl<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Well then, the option is to dive into something beyond one’s level of experience and expertise and hope your liability insurance is all paid up. NFPA 13 is not the end all when it come to design. If you haven’t looked at the building code and then the fire code (local and/or state) and then the applicable NFPA Standard which sometimes isn’t NFPA 13, you’ve not done anyone a real service. And sometimes it might be better to let the guy down the road have it. In our business lives are at stake. Be sure you can whole heartedly defend every note, every decision and every word without hesitation because one day you might have to do so. Oh and be sure to find out the temp of the extruder head, sometimes they can be real hot and those 155°F sprinklers just aren’t going to cut it. And y’all be careful now, ya hear. Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Fire Protection SME – EV, AM, DC, Special Hazards [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | www.jacobs.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.jacobs.com/__;!!KZTdOCjhgt4hgw!-_khxU8gU0_6jc895I7kRbnU8JghRDsWgqOblZ4jr7Qp2IVbR30VYw_hWvNFtphnl0uWpB9KIvbYi1pvZz4$> 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 CONTACT BY: Phone 1-864-676-5252, Email or MS TEAMS From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 4:50 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Sprinklerforum] Re: Metal manufacturing I love all you guys. I really do. (Even you Todd) But, Hire an Engineer, or Should be provided by an Engineer, just does not work out here in the trenches. The answer is there in 13. Even "extruding" by a 3-D printer is extruding. I had to do Metal Working for folks cutting 4x8 sheets of aluminum. There is not a distinction. Some AHJ's see that and live by it. IS it the intent? Probably not. But it IS what the book says. Which is the only thing we have in most cases. I really wish we could kick it back. But more times than not, they just go to the next person in line. Just saying. Those are not really answers to the questions. Rant over.. R/ Matt Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, C.E.T. Ferguson Fire Design, LLC D: (602) 337-0721<(602)%20337-0721> C: (307) 236-8249<(307)%20236-8249> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> ________________________________ From: Craig Hanson <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 12:48 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Metal manufacturing Caution: This email originated from outside of the organization. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you recognize and trust the sender. ________________________________ They need to provide for you the hazard analysis that should have been done by an FPE and in accordance with IFC 104.7.2 and NFPA 13: 4.2(2022). The AHJ should have requested that information also. These are tricky operations as dissimilar metals create a deflagration issue. the design may also be outside the scope of the NFPA 13 due to the process involved. Their insurance company should also be requiring a hazard analysis. Craig D. Hanson, CFPS Fire Division Manager West Coast Code Consultants, Inc. (WC³) Meridian Satellite Office C: 253.225.9977 | E: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | www.WC-3.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.wc-3.com/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!ApwbOjp7WhvKzN4KGihpDFSrZ8N-0yVMVP_N6ebL1tF6TsjkgSJUWayM24OErgv9oETCXeDM1jNFi4C5aqwf_S35sekTmA$> Teaming With Your Community to Make a Difference On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 12:21 PM Fpdcdesign <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: +1 for Tim Stone. Too often the contractor or their estimator are asked to figure out design criteria. That should fall upon the FPE. Todd Williams Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-608-4559 On Oct 24, 2024 at 1:04 PM, <Tstone52<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: It should be recommended that an “Architect” or “Engineer of Record” should provide you with a Code Review. Or hire a “Fire Protection Engineer” to assist you. Regards, G. Tim Stone G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC NICET Level III Engineering Technician Fire Protection Sprinkler Design and Consulting Services 117 Old Stage Rd. - Essex Jct., VT. 05452 CELL: (802) 373-0638 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: Bobby Welch <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 12:57 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Metal manufacturing I have a building were they are making metal products by multiple processes including Metal Casting of steel, Metal Forging, Additive Manufacturing and hot rolling. Most of the building is open warehouse where they are producing metal products with 3D printers. NFPA has metal workings listed as ordinary hazard but also has Die Casting and Metal extruding under Extra hazard group 1. Does anyone know where I would start to figure out what hazard is required for this building? Bobby Welch | Sprinkler Systems Designer KOORSEN FIRE & SECURITY 8090 N Dixie Dr, Dayton, OH 45414 P 937.641.8403 | Ext. 0318 | M 937.594.8457 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | www.koorsen.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.koorsen.com__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!ApwbOjp7WhvKzN4KGihpDFSrZ8N-0yVMVP_N6ebL1tF6TsjkgSJUWayM24OErgv9oETCXeDM1jNFi4C5aqwf_S1HA_wFmw$> 24x7x365 Service: 937.660.7050 | [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!ApwbOjp7WhvKzN4KGihpDFSrZ8N-0yVMVP_N6ebL1tF6TsjkgSJUWayM24OErgv9oETCXeDM1jNFi4C5aqwf_S32DM4r9A$> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!ApwbOjp7WhvKzN4KGihpDFSrZ8N-0yVMVP_N6ebL1tF6TsjkgSJUWayM24OErgv9oETCXeDM1jNFi4C5aqwf_S32DM4r9A$> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> ________________________________ NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. 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