Hi Robert,
Umm - I was making exactly the opposite point - invented in the
16th century makes it, as far as music is concerned, a very new
concept. On the other hand,when talking about "acoustic _concert_
music", it's almost tautologous that they are frontally presented,
because the whole concept of a musical concert was invented at the
same time, probably as a way of making money (I haven't researched
that, it's just a guess) - it's much more difficult to make money from
an audience who can just walk away without embarrassing themselves -
and if you don't believe that (the fear of) embarrassment is not a
strong driver, just watch an inexperienced western audience at the end
of a Gamelan concert trying to get up the courage to actually leave
the concert _during_ the ending piece :-) . Actually, talking about
Gamelan, that's a case in point - in the West (and probably
increasingly in it's home countries) Gamelan is usually presented
frontally (even we usually do that) but this is _not_ correct
traditionally.
Dave
On 2 April 2012 16:34, Robert Greene <gre...@math.ucla.edu> wrote:
>
> It may be old but it is still all but universal
> in acoustic concert music.
> I think it is disingenuous to say that it is not.
> How many symphony concerts have you been to
> recently where the orchestra surrounded the audience.
> The other way around, sure.
> But I think this is just not true, that music
> with the musicians around the audience is common.
> Not in the statistical sense of percentage of
> concerts where it happens.
> Robert
>
> On Mon, 2 Apr 2012, Dave Malham wrote:
>
>> Right on - as I've said before, frontal music is largely a development of
>> 16th century Western civilisation and is not universal, even now.
>>
>> By the way, be careful about the Gabrielli's in St. Marks - there is at
>> least some evidence that separate choirs singing antiphonally were _not
>> _used at St Mark's (see Bryant, D. "The Cori Spezzati of St. Mark's: Myth
>> and Reality" in Early Music History, Cambridge 1981, p169).
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> On 01/04/2012 10:20, Paul Hodges wrote:
>>>
>>> --On 31 March 2012 18:34 -0700 Robert Greene <gre...@math.ucla.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Of course music exists that is not in front. But the vast bulk of
>>>> concert music is not like that.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sure; but what proportion of music are we happy to be unable to reproduce
>>> properly? My organ music (admittedly as much as 20% of my listening) was a
>>> trivial example - and it's only in combination with other things that it
>>> becomes spatially interesting, generally. You mentioned Gabrieli and
>>> Berlioz in a slightly dismissive manner; I would add to them people like
>>> Stockhausen and Earle Brown, a folk group moving among their audience, a
>>> hall full of schoolchildren bouncing their sounds off each other from
>>> different parts of the hall. Not all within the restricted form of "concert
>>> music", but music in the real world where we turn our heads and enjoy our
>>> whole environment.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>
>> --
>> These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer
>> /*********************************************************************/
>> /* Dave Malham http://music.york.ac.uk/staff/research/dave-malham/ */
>> /* Music Research Centre */
>> /* Department of Music "http://music.york.ac.uk/"; */
>> /* The University of York Phone 01904 322448 */
>> /* Heslington Fax 01904 322450 */
>> /* York YO10 5DD */
>> /* UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' */
>> /* "http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/mustech/3d_audio/"; */
>> /*********************************************************************/
>>
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--
These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer
Dave Malham
Music Research Centre
Department of Music
The University of York
Heslington
York YO10 5DD
UK
Phone 01904 322448
Fax 01904 322450
'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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