Does anyone have any info on wind power? Cost of equipment, output, etc?
----- Original Message ----- From: "kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 3:26 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: A Pollution-Free Car in Every Garage > You must talk to Don Lancaster. He doesn't like low delta T thermo or > electrolysis in energy solutions. > > Depends on price of fossil fuel and price of electricity. A solar thermal > power plant can be constructed right now, if you are a good technician, for > $500 a kilowatt. Maintenance is mirrors and a set of turbine bearings every > 10,000 hours. Makes your hot water and space heat at the same time. This is > Sunfire III. Google "Sunfire" and view Sunfire I. > Unit is 5kW. > > Petroleum may be pure unobtanium if there is a war in middle East. > > No black and white answers. > > Kirk > > -----Original Message----- > From: steve spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 7:01 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: A Pollution-Free Car in Every Garage > > > you lose over half of your electricity making hydrogen. hydrogen production > only makes economic and thermodynamic sense when produced from fossil fuels, > not electrolysis. > > > Steve Spence > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: > http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm > > Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com > Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm > X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax > We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, > we borrow it from our children. > -- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 3:05 PM > Subject: [biofuel] Re: A Pollution-Free Car in Every Garage > > > > Been awhile since I've contributed my two cents, new job, new home, > > not much time for net access until now. Hello to all. > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ed Beggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > "unlimited hydro-electric"..or wind, geothermal, nuclear, tidal, PV, > > > biodiesel-genset-H tank, biodiesel-reformer-fuel cell...there are > > options to > > > make this work and they will all be tried, but your point is taken > > that we > > > don't get something for nothing. > > > > > > the diesel won't be around forever and at some point will be > > replaced, just > > > as the advanced steam engines of the past were displaced by the > > diesel. > > > > Ed- Yes, well put. We definately don't get something for nothing, but > > I have always been intrigued by the concept of the power generation > > moving away from on on-board ICE which is inherantly more polluting > > and inefficient than a stationary power plant. There are of course all > > kinds of issues relating to the overall energy efficiency including > > production storage and transport of the hydrogen, but one of the > > things I like about the concept is the potential reduction in > > pollutants. > > > > I like to think in terms of pollution per mile driven. To me this is > > the number I would most like to see reduced. For a given type of > > vehicle, say an ICE, than greater fuel economy lowers this number, as > > do alternative fuels that burn cleaner at the same (or comparable) > > performance. Bio-diesel and ethanol- awesome! But when you start > > talking about completely different powered vehicles, like fuel cells > > or electric cars, you open the door to other possibilities of reducing > > the pollution to miles driven ratio. I see the possibility of systems > > that would use more of an original energy source to drive a certain > > number of miles compared to an ICE run on the same source, but for > > which the reduction of pollutants that a stationary 24hr a day > > hydrogen generator or powerplant would gain over the ICE, would more > > than offset this. > > > > I'm sure I don't have the numbers exactly correct, but ballpark I seem > > to remember that a stationary diesel generator running at a constant > > RPM is something like 3 times more efficient than the one in your car > > or truck with all the accelerating and braking and idling at > > stoplights. So if you used that power to make hydrogen, you could > > accept using up to 2/3 of that energy in making the hydrogen, > > compressing it, and then converting it back to mechanical energy in > > the vehicle, before you start losing out in the pollution to miles > > driven game. If you make the H2 from hydro or wind or solar (there was > > a recent "Science" article on PV's that directly split water which had > > very impressive effciency) the picture looks even better. > > > > > > > > Actually, any car is virtually pollution-free when it's in the > > garage. It's > > > when we drive around in 'em that the problems start. > > > > > > > :-) > > > > -Andrew Doran > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Biofuels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:36:52 +0100 > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] A Pollution-Free Car in Every Garage > > > > > > > > If the energy obtained from a given mass of hydrogen is 100% - > > > > the energy taken to make that hydrogen by hydrolysis is 130% > > > > It then takes another 30% to compress it for portability > > > > Making it, in all, in all 160% energy negative > > > > > > > > So much for the energy economy - unless you have access to > > unlimited > > > > hydro-electric power > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.264 / Virus Database: 136 - Release Date: 7/2/2001 > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
