Russ Nelson wrote: >Sent: 09 March 2009 6:25 PM >To: Talk Openstreetmap >Subject: [OSM-talk] immutable=yes Fwd: DEC Lands > >Earlier, I proposed that certain datasets should be immutable; whether >by policy or mechanism as needed. I propose importing the NYS DEC >Lands as an immutable set of data. If you read this exchange with >Robert Morrell, you can see why they feel that NO changes AT ALL are >appropriate. I agree with them. This dataset constitutes a legal >description of the property managed by the NYS Department of >Environmental Conservation, and changes by any OSM editor are not >consistent with the nature of the data. > >How do people feel about me importing this data (with all of their >metadata), adding an immutable=yes tag, with the intent of tracking >their dataset, and deleting --outright-- any changes made by OSM >editors.
-1 Cheers Andy > >Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Robert Morrell <ramor...@gw.dec.state.ny.us> >> Date: March 9, 2009 2:06:13 PM EDT >> To: Russ Nelson <r...@cloudmade.com> >> Cc: Kurt Swartz <kcswa...@gw.dec.state.ny.us>, Larry Alber ><lal...@gw.dec.state.ny.us >> > >> Subject: Re: DEC Lands >> >> Russ, >> There is no "creativity" in mapping or displaying of Public >> owned land. This isn't art, it's legal land rights that impact >> private land owners. >> >> On what bases would someone with no formal training, no legal deed >> description, or survey map have to determine if a State boundary is >> correct or incorrect. Simply holding a GPS receiver does not give >> someone authority. >> >> Have you read the metadata on the clearinghouse? Read it. If you >> have any questions, get back to me. >> >> Robert Morrell >> Senior Land Surveyor >> Bureau of Real Property >> Division of Lands and Forests >> NYS Dept. Environmental Conservation >> 625 Broadway >> Albany NY 12233-4256 >> 518-402-9442 >> >>>>> "Russ Nelson" <r...@cloudmade.com> 3/9/2009 1:47 PM >>> >> So to the best of your ability, the DEC Lands dataset reflects a fact >> about the world, and there is zero room for creativity? (I understand >> why you might feel this way, so if you do, no explanation is needed, >> just a simple "yes" -- to save you the effort of convincing someone >> who agrees with you!!) >> -russ >> >> On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:10 AM, Robert Morrell wrote: >> >>> Russ, >>> For anyone to edit this DEC spatial data other than DEC >>> staff is absolutely inappropriate. This data layer is built using >>> trained staff using survey maps and deed. If this is your intention >>> I am asking you not to use our data. There are a whole host of >>> issues here. For one, non-survey grade GPS accuracies very widely >>> and can be hundreds of feet wrong. Secondly, sign location is in no >>> way a indicator of the correct boundary location. Third, sometime >>> the Department may transfer in or transfer out land that may not be >>> reflected in a timely manner on the clearing house data or new land >>> have been purchased. I can go on and on. >>> >>> If you would like to discuss this further you are welcome to call me. >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> Robert Morrell >>> Senior Land Surveyor >>> Bureau of Real Property >>> Division of Lands and Forests >>> NYS Dept. Environmental Conservation >>> 625 Broadway >>> Albany NY 12233-4256 >>> 518-402-9442 >>> >>>>>> "Russ Nelson" <r...@cloudmade.com> 3/9/2009 9:37 AM >>> >>> I realize that it's not appropriate to edit the data, and in fact we >>> can keep track of any changes, and either revert them if they are >>> obviously incorrect, or submit them back to you if they seem to be >>> legitimate. Why would someone make a purposeful edit? Perhaps they >>> were out in the field with a GPS, and noticed that the signage >>> disagrees with the map? Of course, it may be the signage that's >>> wrong, but either way it's an issue worthy of resolution. >>> >>> OpenStreetMap is a combination of imported data and user-generated >>> data. If you're familiar with Wikipedia, OpenStreetMap is very >>> similar in concept, only for geodata. Imported data goes into the >>> map >>> under its own userid, and all of your metadata is preserved. If >>> someone edits anything, it's recorded under their username, so we >>> know >>> who made the edit. >>> >>> The reason that I ask for permission is that data in OpenStreetMap >>> may >>> be further downloaded by users. We have an API. Anyone can make API >>> queries for, say, a bounding box, and received a download of >>> everything inside that box. That would include the DEC Lands data. >>> We try very hard not to infringe anyone's copyright. No copyright is >>> claimed in your metadata, but of course under the Berne Convention a >>> copyright exists nonetheless, and we need your permission to be able >>> to redistribute the data. >>> >>> On Mar 9, 2009, at 8:48 AM, Robert Morrell wrote: >>> >>>> Any data the Department puts on the clearing house is open to the >>>> Public to download. >>>> >>>> I see below you discuss "Anybody who makes additions or >>>> corrections to the data must share them with others." >>>> >>>> It would not be appropriate to edit this data in any manor. >>>> >>>> What kind of software is this? >>>> >>>> Robert >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Robert Morrell >>>> Senior Land Surveyor >>>> Bureau of Real Property >>>> Division of Lands and Forests >>>> NYS Dept. Environmental Conservation >>>> 625 Broadway >>>> Albany NY 12233-4256 >>>> 518-402-9442 >>>> >>>>>>> "Russ Nelson" <r...@cloudmade.com> 3/7/2009 9:59 AM >>> >>>> Larry, is it acceptable use to import the "DEC Lands" dataset: >>>> http://www.nysgis.state.ny.us/gisdata/inventories/details.cfm? >>>> DSID=1114 >>>> Into OpenStreetMap? I plan to do a full import of all your >>>> metadata, >>>> so that when you revise your dataset, I can re-import the data and >>>> replace the existing data. >>>> >>>> Note that the license on OpenStreetMap is Creative Commons >>>> Attribution >>>> Share-Alike. That means that anybody who uses it must acknowledge >>>> the >>>> source (and I know that you want your office to be included there; I >>>> will make sure that happens), and it also means that nobody can lock >>>> the data up in a proprietary manner. Anybody who makes additions >>>> or >>>> corrections to the data must share them with others. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - >http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson >>>> r...@cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - >http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson >>> r...@cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson >>> >> >> -- >> Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - >http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson >> r...@cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson >> > >-- >Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - >http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson >r...@cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson > > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk@openstreetmap.org >http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
