Michael, While I whole heartedly agree with what you are saying I also believe strongly that the various agencies don't give a rats ass what cavers think or say. They are not going to be swayed by logic, reason or evidence that does not conform to their preconceived ideas. Ken
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about dancing in the rain. Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 11:58:08 -0600 From: jmofgu...@gmail.com To: pjca...@gwi.net CC: nmca...@comcast.net; s...@caver.net; dgda...@nyx.net; dbuec...@comcast.net; derekbris...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SWR] Oklahoma removed from list of suspected bat fungus areas I have a hard time seeing humans as a significant vector in the spread of WNS, and have seen no evidence that supports this as a reality, not just a possibility. This includes the initial jump across the Atlantic. If humans are a minor factor in the spread then we may expect the disease to run its course as it is spread by major vectors (bat-to-bat). Likewise, where lands in the southeast are owned by a number of entities (USFS, NPS, state lands, private lands, etc), closing any one could not possibly contain the disease. What is as disturbing as the rapid spread of WNS is the seeming bias introduced in its study. We hear repeatedly how humans are a vector even as they ignore any and all suggestions to the contrary, as for instance the paper on geographic translocation in bats. Although decon is a reasonable precaution to slow the spread of WNS, it relies on the honesty and integrity of the people signing the forms. And for cavers with boots, we can imagine that few want to soak their boots in sufficiently hot water for the requisite period of time. I might suggest (a) that, wherever possible, that sneakers should be used instead of boots, as they are more easily sterilized, and may even be thrown out after visiting an infected cave, and (b) that land management agencies, grottoes, etc., maintain sets of gear that are dedicated to a particular cave or group of caves, within which the chance of transmission by bats is high. If gear and ropes are not moved between caves or cave groups, and clothes are washed in hot water and bleached, then the chance of human transmission might be minimized even if caving in affected areas continued. I would also encourage land management agencies in the SW to follow the analytic example set by the Rocky Mountain Region in the EIS considering WNS, and not the example set by the Southern Region USFS in their proposed closure. The latter lacks transparency, employs a heavy-handed, one-size-fits-all approach, reflects more conjecture than science, and lacks accountability of ideas, data and conclusions. Furthermore, the excessively brief period allowed for comments sends the message that the concern and experience of the caving community counts for little. Michael Queen On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:08 AM, Peter Jones <pjca...@gwi.net> wrote: Humans have carried fungal spores across the entire planet and probably into space, so we should also take some responsibility for this catastrophe. Humans have been responsible for a number of serious threats to wildlife. Sometimes inadvertent, and other times purposeful, but I think it’s too early yet to accept responsibility for this one. Humans have taken action, whether or not we’re responsible. I certainly hope we haven’t already spread WNS across the entire universe. Derek Bristol Are there now bats in the space station?? Do they hang head up? If they fly around every time the sun goes down, that means they go through 15.76 sleep/awake cycles per day. That must mean there are also a lot of moths on the space station. Are there astronaut cavers as well? I thought everything they wore in space was hyper-decontaminated before they set foot in the station. Do the bats crap into special vacuum containers? All these questions must be researched and answered!! Peter _______________________________________________ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr _______________________________________________ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET _______________________________________________ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr _______________________________________________ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
_______________________________________________ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr _______________________________________________ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
