-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 A few points for both sides in this discussion.
Yelling (virtually) and name calling will not get anybody anywhere nor make any converts. Doing scientific research takes time, lots of it to do it well. Instant results are only available on TV. Doing scientific research takes money, lots of it to do it well. I personally have supported a lot of scientific research out of my own pocket. Researchers need the funds in order to do the research, and in this time of little government money for anything, this is difficult. The NSS and BCI are helping out in this area, but more funding would mean more results. Speaking as someone with a strong math and science background (I have a PhD in CS), I will point out that when making a proof about something the lack of a counterexample means only that you have not found a counterexample, not that the premise is false. The same is true in my field of computer security: the lack of someone finding a hole in your system means only that they did not find it, not that there is not a (virtual) Mack truck-sized hole that nobody has thought of yet. This means that you cannot argue that because nobody has shown human transmission of WNS, it cannot occur. Logically, your argument contains a fallacy. WNS has been moving steadily across the country; I am not counting the OK false positive in this statement. This means that any caves where the conditions are favorable for WNS to show up need to be identified and carefully monitored. We as cavers should be very happy that Debbie has been involved in this. Otherwise, many more caves in NM and AZ might be closed because nobody would know where the conditions are right. Please thank Debbie for her part in keeping many caves open. Civil communication and disagreement are good. It forces better science when you have to convince your strongest critics. However, please keep it focused on the science itself and avoid personal attacks. Let's do something productive with all of the energy represented here. For Debbie and Diana, please post some references for the cavers to go read about the latest scientific results. If PDF files cannot be sent to the list, my web server can be used to distribute them. For the people not doing WNS-related science, here are two ideas to move things forward: 1. Donate as much as you can to the NSS rapid response fund. http://caves.org/donate/ Then donate more. 2. Ask your legislators to provide more funding for WNS research that would answer the fundamental questions (what studies would you want to see in order to help the land agencies make their decisions about cave openings/closures?). I welcome any civil responses, whether or not you agree with me. Kenneth A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both. - ---Dwight D. Eisenhower, First Inaugural Address, January 20, 1953 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTmcYjAAoJEN0TsnzrrYbVle8P/ieXReLlJnLz32X8P2CacQvs ksctSbmhzuRKj9pU7c5PmrFc+0c32omt3LkLJ3B+jBjbnCL9toabtLT0YLzCo8kl Veg6QdM2Y0rNKXa1EeNjlYilaVpjI65VTaotvMjHjyuORfSUVGEqWWlSOhj3BuEB 9eV274HnXEQ7mAY6zIRujzALZ5j+tUSqfOSBvO0iTfP/mELQEH8+gn7FaXEdrGye qC1GyPHVRmHN9bLVq90nNFd9ZnIS5I3yFRhJbkm2sGH1JBzQdhhgkOEUBoVGa/Kj wPT0G0AxVYUctnfvVMnxkHCQFFcEQJPCBDsQwnTvOL/QQ76MaDt8kdAZcKzCHKhb /J3mMMkyjv2WoAxiNk6FkHEeWnsIsqBytt708TVTVfvcIduBqD7PLbg4F0Afk1IB tj9Ue1nl9m7f3qJQ3x5ett0TazaEYRUu3OnLwHmoavyzmAVPCi1TBgGJ+bxXLIR3 u05siMGnXNCaBEdIofK6gfTaBYY3nJ46OOR0be1suNEa1r7P8wVDZ5bH7ZG23csy YB7MxCguQZ5R+1UJeYJin+jH1xAbxx9VvoRMcts6s6nUFrDXiZQPdpKvnHfU2LOw SivXxzZ9gB4+kDisoSY2CJpBjJwhD1if3Vcjec2d/zPSRtMYpD+JOCnOaGr7iyL3 iYowbW9phAvjkMWooRbX =YxnF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr _______________________________________________ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET