Hi All, I’ve read emails on whether the SWR should support the FOIA to understand the reasons for cave closures, and vote for or against the FOIA. Those who have commented on both sides of this issue, are dear to me. Recent emails seem to involve political issues that I may or may not agree with. I vote against this method of SWR dealing with the federal agencies. I hope a panel can be voted upon to study the issue, represent all sides of SWR, and that panel communicate the concerns to the agencies. For now, I unsubscribe to this email group.
Respectfully, Victor Polyak ________________________________ From: SWR <swr-boun...@caver.net> on behalf of jerryat...@aol.com <jerryat...@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 11:54 AM To: Mike Flannigan Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] Bat hibernation I think you all have started to cross the line on civil discourse. Let's all take a deep breath and remember that it's a public listserve. Jerry. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 12, 2014, at 5:52 AM, Mike Flannigan <mikef...@att.net<mailto:mikef...@att.net>> wrote: It isn't that hard to understand. Quite clear actually. He stated facts about the USGS and then some opinions from Wildlife Department biologists and himself. You obviously don't agree, so you use words like "rant" and "shoot off their mouth". You might want to change your field of study to global warming. You'd fit right in with that "scientific" crowd. Mike On 6/11/2014 9:25 PM, Debbie Buecher wrote: Hi Steve, I could not entirely understand your most recent rant but that is not entirely new. I have REAL scientific data that I have presented a number of times at SWR paper regionals that documents bat hibernacula microclimate data (temperatures and RH) from both AZ and NM bat roosts. It shows conclusively that these caves have appropriate microclimate for Pseudogymnoascus destructans to flourish. I am currently preparing a manuscript for a peer-reviewed journal to report these findings. If you were a scientist you would understand the rigorous protocols that scientists must follow in order to publish findings. Cavers are more fortunate because they are free to shoot off their mouth without checking with anyone first. Cheers, Debbie Debbie Buecher Buecher Biological Consulting Stephen Fleming <<mailto:casto...@gmail.com>casto...@gmail.com<mailto:casto...@gmail.com>> wrote: On 06/11/2014 7:17, Debbie Buecher wrote: Hi ET, The cave myotis in southern Arizona go up in elevation and enter hibernation in late Sept and come out in April. Myotis are the hardest hit back east so we have real concerns for their counterparts in the West. Debbie Your statement about cave myotis is deflated by the May 6, 2014 press release from the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation noting that not only had "scientists with the U.S. Geological Survey National Wildlife Health Center have dropped Oklahoma from the list of areas where White-Nose Syndrome in bats has been suspected or confirmed." But, "The scientists have also removed the Cave Myotis (Myotis velifer) from the list of bat species that have tested positive for the fungus (Pseudogymnoascus destructans) that has been associated with White-Nose Syndrome..." And, "Wildlife Department biologists commended the U.S. Geological Survey National Wildlife Heath Center's continued efforts to ensure accuracy and transparency in diagnostic results." That ranks right up there with removing Oklahoma from the Chicken Little list. It actually is refreshing because, except for the USGS, we have seen zero accuracy and transparency from any other agency or groups-with-agendas from the get-go of this problem. The USGS obviously holds science and professionalism in much higher regard than various land agencies. The land agencies ought to be embarrassed for substituting fiction for fact, but it's clear they aren't troubled in the least by their actions, which constitute serious lapses of judgment and professionalism. It's clear they believe they are not accountable for their actions. And, they are not if the public does not hold them accountable. Because agencies are doing things without having an articulable (legal definition: capable of being expressed, explained, or justified) basis as to why, and they simply don't care that it's obvious their actions are a total sham to everyone with the ability to think and question. Remember, if you are a tourist at Mammoth Cave in the heart of proven WNS cases, you not only can go into a completely open cave, where WNS has been confirmed, but your "decon" is to stroll across some silly bio-mat on your way out and on to the next tourist cave. However, if you are in NM, hundreds and hundreds of miles from any WNS, caves are nearly completely closed because they're deemed "at risk" (without so much as a scintilla of proof) and if you can get into one you have to boil your clothes, and jump through other hoops, repeatedly. That's hardly science, and it certainly isn't "management." Professionalism is not the word that comes to mind. Voodoo and "we don't care about the science, or what anyone thinks; we're in charge" does. Wrong on every level. Stephen _______________________________________________ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net<mailto:s...@caver.net> http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr _______________________________________________ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
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