Kenneth,
I admit cause I don't know and have not been involved that much, and I
am old, fat and too busy maintaining caver related mailing lists that
take up too much time... But are BLM caves that have no bats, never had
any history of bats, are not conducive to ever enticing any bats to
ever colonize them, also closed?
If so, then that, in my mind make no sense at all.
I think what has so many cavers upset is the lack of communication from
the BLM...
But I only observe from what I read from others.
Caver, friend and list owner/moderator...
Bill Bentley
On 6/12/2014 10:24 AM, Kenneth Ingham wrote:
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A few points for both sides in this discussion.
Yelling (virtually) and name calling will not get anybody anywhere nor
make any converts.
Doing scientific research takes time, lots of it to do it well.
Instant results are only available on TV.
Doing scientific research takes money, lots of it to do it well. I
personally have supported a lot of scientific research out of my own
pocket. Researchers need the funds in order to do the research, and
in this time of little government money for anything, this is
difficult. The NSS and BCI are helping out in this area, but more
funding would mean more results.
Speaking as someone with a strong math and science background (I have
a PhD in CS), I will point out that when making a proof about
something the lack of a counterexample means only that you have not
found a counterexample, not that the premise is false. The same is
true in my field of computer security: the lack of someone finding a
hole in your system means only that they did not find it, not that
there is not a (virtual) Mack truck-sized hole that nobody has thought
of yet. This means that you cannot argue that because nobody has
shown human transmission of WNS, it cannot occur. Logically, your
argument contains a fallacy.
WNS has been moving steadily across the country; I am not counting the
OK false positive in this statement. This means that any caves where
the conditions are favorable for WNS to show up need to be identified
and carefully monitored. We as cavers should be very happy that
Debbie has been involved in this. Otherwise, many more caves in NM
and AZ might be closed because nobody would know where the conditions
are right. Please thank Debbie for her part in keeping many caves open.
Civil communication and disagreement are good. It forces better
science when you have to convince your strongest critics. However,
please keep it focused on the science itself and avoid personal attacks.
Let's do something productive with all of the energy represented here.
For Debbie and Diana, please post some references for the cavers to go
read about the latest scientific results. If PDF files cannot be sent
to the list, my web server can be used to distribute them.
For the people not doing WNS-related science, here are two ideas to
move things forward:
1. Donate as much as you can to the NSS rapid response fund.
http://caves.org/donate/
Then donate more.
2. Ask your legislators to provide more funding for WNS research that
would answer the fundamental questions (what studies would you want to
see in order to help the land agencies make their decisions about cave
openings/closures?).
I welcome any civil responses, whether or not you agree with me.
Kenneth
A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
- ---Dwight D. Eisenhower, First Inaugural Address, January 20, 1953
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