@liebana,
> This indirectly also goes for you Raphäe l. I'm afraid, I didn't make any critics to Ana in those posts... I'm actually very happy she can prove a non programmer can now be a sustainable integrator, this is indeed needed for a mature OpenERP market, because there aren't enough polyvalent aliens to work for any SMB company and because at some point having specialized experts could be a valid skills optimization. Now, you might refer to this: in an other thread, I made I once said to Ana I think she was under-rating the importance, at some point of an OpenERP implementation to have some very exceptional people that are both very good software engineers, understand perfectly how open source works, so know where/how to find information, can estimate what will work and what will not beside marketing, know ERP very well too. This is not because ERP or Python is rocket science but this is rather largely due to the high level of OpenERP bugs and sub-optimal low level API that make modules breaks together in unexpected ways and also the fact that you are on you own, there isn't a legally responsible editor that will cover all the blocker bugs (at least Tiny will stop promising impossible things here) you will encounter (this is open source, it's just that often quality is better enough), features are easily listed in slidewares, but much hardly implemented properly in a generic reusable manner and you have to find the truth yourself otherwise you are dead... So, I prefer Ana to admit that (especially when at some point she relies on us to pass those phases) because I think that forgetting that hard reality will not help moving OpenERP forward. If we forget that, we rather invest/let Tiny invest on cosmetic changes, marketing, partner network, documentation, but at the end we still have a brittle product where fixing a bug somewhere breaks something elsewhere (rounding? workflows? report engine?) in unexpected ways, sticking to high integration costs reserved to an elite. We rather need to admit all those issues and fix them this is the best way to avoid fooling us into an Openbravo like bubble. Should Tiny try to fool the few real integrators that do know the truth, we would have no faith at all in the future (say against Tryton), so then I would prefer leave the boat, and I tell you I'm not alone (some even already jump-started on Tryton because of that)... Also, I think it's good to remind us that Ana is the unique exception working like that so far!! (anyone else with such a profile without coding expertise they made several success stories?). I tell you: we even had that internal fight at Smile because my managers thought they could afford just throwing in such functional only clean hands consulting guys, as the common practice to integrate mature millions backed proprietary ERP's. Well that failed so far: the non programming guys are much more of a burden than an asset so far and the integration is not that much easy that you can easily have the engineers sustain those guys (even if hopefully it change in the future)... When a non coding guys should write a spec to a coding guy, you multiply by two the specification burden, the risk inherent to sub-contractualisation (leading to security margins or drama), so considering OpenERP is full of bugs that will eat a good deal of the integration money. I use to say as much as around 30% of total integration cost. So believe me, it's just too huge, M$ SMB RP guys/average unlearned customer were rather used to a 7% provision... already, this is a luxury which is really hard to afford... So, again I'm very happy Ana demonstrates it is now possible, provided like us you overwork in a way a normal employee is not expected too, but please do not make the exception the rule because we aren't quite there yet. Aside from her, all the guys I know that can integrate OpenERP (50 people max so far!) are just good enough to combine ALL those expertises, including accounting AND coding. Notice I would totally admit Ana knows MRP or accounting much better than I do, there are also much better Python programmers too; still polyvalence is required because OpenERP is still a cowboy work because predictable industrial process do not hold true yet in that world because it's not mature enough for that. And please show Nhomar some respect too. By investing several thousand of dollars in OpenERP Venezuelan localization they took a big risk and contribute a lot (I'm very happy to see their Launchpad bug report). I totally understand the concern of Nhomar who basically says: to be able to make such investment, we need some guarantees we get the return. Yes, at some point we need some larger structures investments like those guys or say Smile and we need them to be safe within the OpenERP world. That means at some point I understand bringing money to Tiny is rewarded in some way. At some point that's why I'm not making a big deal of being 'only' a starter myself despite as many success stories or important modules, so is Ferdinand for instance, one of the 3 third party top contributor with a huge expertise (and yes polyvalent again). One reasons we need them is that usually only larger structure can hire those higher profile engineers and if we want OpenERP to step out of the Python amateurism (no tied to the language but rather too the people), we need that expertise too. So, the partnership needs some kind of trade-of. It totally piss me off when I know some "gold" partners allows them to sign deal first (just a few euros cheaper than you BTW) and then run for some Indian low profile trainees to try to have the work done and are even 1 year late on schedule on some small project because they were unaware to secure a decent team while some small partners have all their customer happy... So yes it needs to improves to be a little more rational but we also need the larger structures/investment in, freelances are far from doing it all. Frankly I don't see why this went so polemic guys, I think some of you miss-interpreted some Nhomar's statements. ------------------------ Raphaël Valyi CEO and OpenERP consultant at http://www.akretion.com -------------------- m2f -------------------- -- http://www.openobject.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=51431#51431 -------------------- m2f --------------------
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