You make it sound so grim; in reality, most of the science, tech and engineering jobs pay better right out of college with a BA or BS degree, than many other non-STEM jobs pay with years of additional schooling. My (soon to ex-) daughter-in-law is making as money this year as a first year grad in chemical engineering, as I am making 20+ years in my job with a PhD. Granted she was in an extremely challenging program and had to work her buns off for a BS degree, but it is still many fewer years of education and no dissertation. AND she finds her work interesting, fascinating and rewarding.
Annette Annette Kujawski Taylor, Ph. D. Professor, Psychological Sciences University of San Diego 5998 Alcala Park San Diego, CA 92110 tay...@sandiego.edu<mailto:tay...@sandiego.edu> ________________________________ From: roig-rear...@comcast.net [roig-rear...@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 3:25 PM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: Re: [tips] Does College Kill Interest in Science? I really have to wonder whether the issue lies in students' realization that the financial and personal rewards of choosing science as a career are just not worth the sacrifice. Think about it: years of doctoral and post-doctoral grueling lab work, little guarantee of a tenure-track faculty position in a research-oriented institution after graduation, decreasing societal respect for the profession. Is it any wonder that students are not going into these disciplines? Miguel ________________________________ From: "Michael Britt" <mich...@thepsychfiles.com> To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)" <tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu> Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 3:24:05 PM Subject: Re: [tips] Does College Kill Interest in Science? Annette, Your post made me think about an episode I had been thinking about putting together on this topic of attracting students to science vs. the challenge of actually doing real science. When I taught Research Methods and Statistics for psych majors, a colleague who had a very different teaching style taught it along with me. He was quite, shall we say demanding and I wanted the students to enjoy the topic. As a result, I would guess that his students probably came out of the course having learned more, but I think mine came out of the course with a more positive attitude toward research and stats. In other words, his students might have done better on Bloom's cognitive domains, but mine would have come out higher on Bloom's affective domains. Which approach is "better"? I agree that actual science is hard. There's no way to water down how complex a repeated measures of anova is to carry out and analyze. I would argue that when it's your study and your idea and your hypothesis, then you'll put in the time to figure out how to calculate those complicated stats, but you first have to have a positive attitude and you have to value the scientific method. Michael Michael A. Britt, Ph.D. mich...@thepsychfiles.com<mailto:mich...@thepsychfiles.com> http://www.ThePsychFiles.com<http://www.thepsychfiles.com/> Twitter: mbritt On Nov 4, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Annette Taylor wrote: I get a sense from this article and my own experience that in an effort to hook students, the middle and high schools water down their programs. Then when faced with real science in college it's a big whoopsie with the professor taking the brunt of the students' anger at the disillusionment. Maybe the hooking needs to take place in elementary school, and real science education in middle and high school. Oh well, my speculation won't make a whit of difference. Annette Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone Mike Palij wrote: --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: michael.br...@thepsychfiles.com<mailto:michael.br...@thepsychfiles.com>. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13405.0125141592fa9ededc665c55d9958f69&n=T&l=tips&o=13890 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-13890-13405.0125141592fa9ededc665c55d9958...@fsulist.frostburg.edu<mailto:leave-13890-13405.0125141592fa9ededc665c55d9958...@fsulist.frostburg.edu> An article in the NY Times today reviews how the U.S. is losing their science majors once they are IN college. The article is available here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/education/edlife/why-science-majors-change-their-mind-its-just-so-darn-hard.html?google_editors_picks=true Some key points: (1) The focus here is on students with strong STEM backgrounds. (2) Science majors at big research institutions are more likely to drop out of the science major relative to other less prestigious institutions.. (3) As some of the comments to the article point out, people with STEM majors and graduate study still have a hard time getting jobs, especially ones that pay well. (4) For purposes of this article, psychology is NOT a science (indeed, there is a case presented of a student with a strong background in math, was an engineering major at Notre Dame and switched to a double-major in English and psychology -- he plans on becoming a clinical psychologist). By the way, I believe the APA and other organizations were trying to get psychology recognized as a STEM discipline. Anyone know how that is going? -Mike Palij New York University m...@nyu.eud<mailto:m...@nyu.eud> --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: tay...@sandiego.edu<mailto:tay...@sandiego.edu>. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13534.4204dc3a11678c6b1d0be57cfe0a21b0&n=T&l=tips&o=13889 or send a blank email to leave-13889-13534.4204dc3a11678c6b1d0be57cfe0a2...@fsulist.frostburg.edu<mailto:leave-13889-13534.4204dc3a11678c6b1d0be57cfe0a2...@fsulist.frostburg.edu> --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: michael.br...@thepsychfiles.com<mailto:michael.br...@thepsychfiles.com>. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13405.0125141592fa9ededc665c55d9958f69&n=T&l=tips&o=13890 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-13890-13405.0125141592fa9ededc665c55d9958...@fsulist.frostburg.edu<mailto:leave-13890-13405.0125141592fa9ededc665c55d9958...@fsulist.frostburg.edu> --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: roig-rear...@comcast.net<mailto:roig-rear...@comcast.net>. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13482.917fac06d4daae681dabfe964ca8c74e&n=T&l=tips&o=13891 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-13891-13482.917fac06d4daae681dabfe964ca8c...@fsulist.frostburg.edu<mailto:leave-13891-13482.917fac06d4daae681dabfe964ca8c...@fsulist.frostburg.edu> --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: tay...@sandiego.edu<mailto:tay...@sandiego.edu>. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13534.4204dc3a11678c6b1d0be57cfe0a21b0&n=T&l=tips&o=13894 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-13894-13534.4204dc3a11678c6b1d0be57cfe0a2...@fsulist.frostburg.edu<mailto:leave-13894-13534.4204dc3a11678c6b1d0be57cfe0a2...@fsulist.frostburg.edu> --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=13900 or send a blank email to leave-13900-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
