Oh I remember now, Jones doesn't get my posts for some reason. But surely others got them? Robin? Anyone?
Or wait, did they... did YOU send the two posts back to me only???? Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Jullian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 12:44 AM Subject: [Vo]: Re: Loop closed? (was Re: [Vo]: High efficiency electrolysis) >I can't believe they let my post through, I KNEW it was a good idea to post it >during a total lunar eclipse! As many as possible of you guys please let me >know if you received it too, let they know the free energy revolution is on >the march! > > Michel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michel Jullian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 12:13 AM > Subject: [Vo]: Loop closed? (was Re: [Vo]: High efficiency electrolysis) > > >> Jones, your musings prompted the following idea here: >> >> 1/ There exist well known mechanical-to-heat converters with a COP>3, namely >> heat pumps used for heating purposes sucking the heat from ambient air: you >> get 3 to 4 times more heat out than the energy you have put in (probably >> much more since the figure I am quoting includes the sub-unity >> electrical-to-mechanical conversion efficiency of the heat pump's electric >> motor, of which we would have no need). Let's call such a device's >> efficiency COP1, with COP1 > 3 (conservative) >> >> 2/ As you say there exist heat-to-mechanical converters with an efficiency >> well over 40%. Let's call such a device's efficiency COP2, with COP2 > 0.4 >> (conservative again) >> >> 3/ Now if we drive a device of type 1 using a device of type 2, the >> combination's efficiency will be: >> COP2*COP1 > 0.4*3 = 1.2 > 1 right? >> >> So we can close the loop, mechanical-to-heat-to mechanical, with excess >> energy to power the car or whatever. Right? :) >> >> Michel >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jones Beene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com> >> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 10:14 PM >> Subject: Re: [Vo]: High efficiency electrolysis >> >> >>> Ron, >>> >>>> but lets assume I can provide Hydrogen from water in excess of COP>1. Now >>>> what are we going to do with it >>>> where the conversion does not eat up this gain? ICE engine is out! >>> >>> I may have to disagree on this point, as I am optimistically looking for >>> continued advances on several fronts. Yes, fuel cells are out. Huge >>> drain of time and effort. >>> >>> But ... both Ford and BMW have puts tons of money and man-hours into >>> improving the H2 fueled ICE. They are not there yet but they can get a >>> Carnot efficiency of 45% at single engine speed. BMW has gotten over 50%. >>> >>> Now at first blush - this looks to be of no great help because you would >>> need COP>3 or closer to 4 to get anything useful ... even with a (much) >>> larger engine to cover the parasitism ... but there are wildcards which >>> built on the 55% waste heat of those ICE's: >>> >>> 1) thermo-electro-chemical water splitting >>> 2) thermoelectric water radiolysis >>> >>> I don't see either getting close to COP>3 (compared to Faradaic) but... >>> >>> 3) either of the above, using LENR (perhaps Mizuno arc) techniques to >>> provide more energy, and with or without ... >>> >>> 4) turbine/ICE dual engines where split cell water splitting is >>> engineered so that peroxide is produced preferentially (instead of O2) >>> and enriched in situ for use as a monopropellant in the turbine, while >>> the H2 is burned in the ICE (or in a second stage tubine). >>> >>> All of these concepts are using waste heat, but realistically, unless >>> the hydrino, LENR (or something unknown like the Graneau hypothesis) is >>> also at work, and that extra energy can be harnessed as well, then this >>> won't happen. Thermacore and Mizuno presents a good case that it can be >>> done, in principle. But that is a far, far way from doing it now. >>> >>> At this point in time (terrorism concern) radiolysis is out for an >>> automobile, but maybe not for a longer time horizon. >>> >>> The main point is that the USA should be putting the equivalent of the >>> hot fusion budget into this! (including $$$ into your work) >>> >>> Jones >>> >> >
