At 08:04 PM 8/17/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
At 04:11 PM 8/17/2011, Joe Catania wrote:
The NASA calculations seem to have no validity. It dosen't seem
possible to pin down the quality. There is not enough information to do so.
That's my whole point. There IS enough information. In fact, the
temperatures and pressure don't matter.
The input water volume and the input electrical energy are not
(seriously) in dispute.
Then we only need to determine ONE thing : is the chimney overflowing, or not.
If it IS overflowing, then the Steam Quality is between 0% Dry and
74% Dry -- and the eCat might be producing NO energy.
If it is NOT overflowing, then the steam quality is above 75% Dry --
and the eCat is shown to be real.
There is a possibility that Mr. Fletcher has not ruled out, which
would be that the E-Cat produces very wet steam internally, before
water overflows. It's not possible to confirm this or rule this out
with the data we have.
This is what's totally weird: the E-Cat starts up with 0% steam
quality. I.e., as soon as the water reaches boiling temperature, we
start with boiling hot water, and only a tiny bit of vapor as some
bubbles, perhaps. If heat increases, we get steam all the way from 0%
up to whatever level the E-Cat reaches. We know it doesn't reach
100%, that would be dry steam, very difficult to get, and there would
then be loss of temperature regulation, which hasn't been reported.
Your figure of 75% you seem to have made up. You wrote:
Dryout occurs at some definite value of Steam Quality, Xdryout.
Based on the Vertical diagram it appears to be at about 75% Dry.
Based on the Horizontal diagram it appears to be 85% Dry, but it is
not clear that the horizontal diagram is to scale on the horizontal axis.
No, there is no specific steam quality at which there is no possible
liquid water. Saturated steam (0%-100% quality) is all at the same
temperature, and so liquid water can co-exist with the vapor, the
liquid will not condense the vapor and the vapor will not vaporize the liquid.
It seems that you took some sketches illustrating the process of
steam conversion from bubbly flow to drippy steam, etc., and then
used them as if they were quantitative representations.
Whether or not water remains suspended in steam depends on the flow
conditions, the velocity and turbulence.
The whole thing is a red herring. Inside that outlet hose, and inside
the E-cat, we have no way of determining how much is liquid and how
much is vapor. If we pulled the hose off, we might not even see
overflow, if there was enough steam, the steam would blow the
overflow out as a fine spray. The interior of the E-cat might be frothy.
It's all a red herring because the real issue is the enthalpy of the
outflow. Measuring that is what was needed, because determining the
wetness of steam is actually pretty complex. Measuring the energy
carried by the steam, the enthalpy, not so complex.
