Leigh, They say Canadians say thank you even when someone steps on their toes. So as a Canadian, I thank you.
Warm wishes, Nellie On 11/3/08, Leigh Blackall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Peter, I sense you have it. That makes me happy :) > > I am just back from a walk in the mountains, and struggle to find the > motivation to explain this any more. I'm satisfied that I've at least > communicated my thoughts to Peter, and hope he'll carry the ball further. I > will recommend for a third time to watch Downes video explaining the tension > between groups and networks, and reflect on the controlling influences that > groups have on us individually - especially Wikieducator. Sorry if you all > have watched it - I just see little evidence of it. > > Legs so sore I can barely keep the laptop on my lap! Face burnt, mouth dry, > boots wet. I'll sleep well tonight! > > On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Derek Chirnside <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > wrote: > >> Well well. Saturday, 6.01am here, just off to the Coast with two bands, >> one classic rock and one progressive rock to play 7 hours at the Empire >> Hotel during the 6,000 people Ross Fireworks Festival, hay fever disenhanced >> (severely today), and very very tired after the decision this week in the >> Moodle trial here and the huge amount of work leading up to this. >> >> Then this post comes. The first words where I think I really can engage >> wkith this fascinating discussion, possibly at the risk of missing the >> point, but I do have some things to say. >> I'm based at an unusual institution. They will give us the OK to start of >> UCTL.canterbury.ac.nz <http://uctl.canterbury.ac.nz/> as a little fun >> thing, to give away all the work from one of my recent projects, yet quibble >> over pixel widths on learning pages with branding, and force a 12 month >> process when 2 weeks would really be enough to make a decision. etc. A >> place of contradictions where I am a minion. Some things (only some things) >> are not the best, but I'm finding (vaguely)a place there. >> >> I'm a dabbler in WE. In and out like a yo yo - committed to OER but like >> some other software develiopers, mistaking a clear view of the goal with the >> closeness of it. Some of your comments probably resonate about why I find >> it hard at times in the WE OER environment. >> >> BUT: I can't post now more, got to pack trailors etc, and I'll be away >> from any internet for 36 hours. >> The crunch came three weeks ago. I was off to do a reccee for the Ross >> trip to the Coast. At 27 hours notice I got a call to run 2 Podcasting >> workshops on the coast. I was already going, so hey, I thought, lets do it. >> Where to put it was my query? WE was obvious. Checked out the podcasting >> stuff. Tried to decide what to do. Fiddle with it? Copy and adapt it? >> Work with Podcasting to create Derek's Podcasting. I had no time to do it >> this way. How to name my pages? How to cluster them? How much to >> contextualise? Who owns the page 'podcasting workshop' and can I fiddle >> with it? Should I start one as well? >> >> This is a trivial context I know, but they made me face a few of these >> questions you are debating here. >> >> OK. Unfinished. >> But I have broken the ice. I'll be back. >> If the discussion has not moved on two much I'll post tomorrow afternoon. >> I may post even if it has. :-) >> >> -Derek >> >> >> 2008/10/31 Alex P. Real <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> Hi Leigh, >>> >>> >>> >>> Beautiful response, I really appreciate it <smile>. The scenario >>> product/maintainer/tradeoff is recurrent in many realms, not just software. >>> I can only agree to your reading on collaborative editing, the main reason >>> why I've refrained from contributing contents, to see how things work and >>> avoid potential uneasiness among page creators. I find more productive >>> adding to something going on than starting from scratch. And as the prime >>> focus is the Commonwealth it seemed coherent to leave the initiative to >>> intended beneficiaries, maybe a bias acquired in development projects. I >>> know I can start my own page, node, but seemed out of place, so focused on >>> Collage G-group until it fulfilled its role in COL's agenda. No criticism, >>> right? >>> >>> >>> >>> Re TQF I got involved replying to an email by Anil re content development >>> and read the full thread with keen interest, same as the Wikipedia entry. >>> With such a diverse base of educators WE seems ideal to conduct some >>> research re existing frameworks, limitations, alternatives, etc. to >>> contribute to TQF or whatever and try minimize the dangers you rightly >>> perceive, and take into account country/cultural specificities usually set >>> aside; or as some sort of repository. But again, not for me to tell. I'll >>> start my own stuff to pursue my interests, otherwise I'll end quitting. >>> >>> >>> >>> I can only guess what you mean by "grouped thinking" (my ignorance re >>> WE subtleties), keep fighting for your beliefs. I may not agree with you >>> 100% which is healthy and enriching, but it doesn't mean I don't >>> follow/like/admire what you do. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> Alex >>> >>> >>> >>> *De:* wikieducator@googlegroups.com [mailto: >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] *En nombre de *Leigh Blackall >>> *Enviado el:* jueves, 30 de octubre de 2008 22:46 >>> *Para:* wikieducator@googlegroups.com >>> *Asunto:* [WikiEducator] Re: !!RE: [WikiEducator] Re: Another Milestone >>> >>> >>> >>> Alex said: >>> >>> Sorry if pushy here but have you >>> considered your approach could be perceived as an imposition itself? >>> Criticism is great, and I mean it, but what alternatives do you suggest? >>> Ever thought TQF could ease many lives, e.g. qual recognition abroad, >>> which >>> can be a real nightmare? >>> >>> >>> Yes, of course Alex, I have and do consider the question - often >>> reflecting on the many years I have spent encouraging (to put it lightly) >>> teachers to use socially networked media, and arguing for a specific type of >>> change, namely individual capability and independence, and networked >>> practice. The question I ask myself is how much my methods align with >>> individuality, and undermine those of us who value collectiveness. An age >>> old dilemma really - the individual and the state (and everything in >>> between). >>> >>> As for the Transnational Qualification Framework. Anil, Peter and myself >>> have had interesting discussions about TQF on this list. I must say again, I >>> don't see TQF relating (yet) to the concerns I have about words to the >>> effect of one curriculum (which is where this thread started from - relating >>> to the Wikipedia article about Wikieducator). TQF (if done well) should be >>> able to support many curricula including ones that have not formed yet, and >>> include any subject area. There was a little bit of concern back in the >>> early TQF thread when someone started stating that some forms of knowledge >>> are "redundant" and should not be included in a TQF, and this is where it >>> starts to go wrong. But over all, the idea of developing an assessment >>> framework that aids the strengthening of new knowledge, the easier migration >>> of people, and an exchange of ideas.. this is certainly something that is >>> attractive. But over stating that, or developing something that has an >>> impact of people's ideas about curricula, or the establishment of new forms >>> of knowledge, or the squashing of old forms, this is something to watch out >>> for every step of the way. >>> >>> I'm not sure I agree with John Stampe's organising principles based on >>> his experience in software development. >>> >>> The thing is with software development or collaborative editing is that >>> there are trade-offs. You want a product (software, text, learning tools, >>> etc.) that is open to new ideas, new features, and new approaches. One the >>> other hand you need somebody (a "maintainer" in open software circles) who >>> will maintain direction and purpose to the project. >>> >>> >>> In my experience there has in fact been very very little actual >>> collaborative editing on Wikieducator - and this is a good thing in many >>> ways. Yet we continue to refer to collaborative editing as one of the key >>> organising principles for Wikieducator. Instead, we have a networked model. >>> Again I would refer to the video of Stephen Downes articulating his >>> thoughts about the tension between groups and >>> networks<http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4126240905912531540>, >>> where I sit more comfortably in the zone of networked participant, and I >>> think it is a more realistic organising principle for Wikieducator. The >>> distribution and re-networking of information and communication is different >>> (I think) to software development. To use the software development analogy >>> that John has reintroduced: the information and communication development >>> (that we might just call content for now) exists in 100s of thousands of >>> "folks", and those "folks" are converged from time to time to form nodes (as >>> Maria explains). Those nodes build up and/or disappear. Very rarely (never) >>> do they converge to make one (although Maria desires it). It is kind of the >>> opposite to software development, and so far it is opposite to Wikieducator. >>> I myself have been following the collaborative editing promise and software >>> development analogy (sharing in Maria's desire for one thing), but >>> increasingly I'm becoming more and more uncomfortable with it as I find >>> myself centralising and struggling with grouped thinking and tradeoffs. >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 3:12 AM, Chris Harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Your asking something different. Originally you were talking about >>> naming. Disambiguation would probably be a good example of this. >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Disambiguation >>> >>> For a good example of multiple pages from different points of view about >>> the same concept perhaps look at this page. >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_education >>> >>> Or perhaps portals like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_portal >>> >>> Anyway, I should be in bed, I'll try to find more info tommorow if your >>> not satisfied. >>> >>> Warm Regards >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 11:16 PM, Maria Droujkova <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Chris, >>> >>> Can you please point me in the direction of some good examples? I want to >>> see multiple pages from different points of view about the same concept. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Chris Harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Names stand for ideas, so there will be the one and the only page about >>> "constructivism" and "math" and "multiplication" in any wiki. >>> >>> >>> >>> This is wrong, in an encyclopedia or dictionary this may be true. >>> >>> Warm regards >>> Chris Harvey >>> chris.superuser.com.au >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Cheers, >>> MariaD >>> >>> I write, 'In the beginning was the Deed!' - Goethe, Faust >>> >>> naturalmath.com: a sketch of a social math site >>> groups.google.com/group/naturalmath: a mailing list about math maker >>> activities >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Leigh Blackall >>> +64(0)21736539 >>> skype - leigh_blackall >>> SL - Leroy Goalpost >>> http://learnonline.wordpress.com >>> http://www.wikieducator.org/User:Leighblackall >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> From Derek Chirnside. >> >> >> >> >> > > > > -- > -- > Leigh Blackall > +64(0)21736539 > skype - leigh_blackall > SL - Leroy Goalpost > http://learnonline.wordpress.com > http://www.wikieducator.org/User:Leighblackall > > > > -- Warm wishes, Nellie Deutsch Doctoral Student Educational Leadership Curriculum and Instruction http://www.nelliemuller.com http://www.integrating-technology.com/pd http://www.building-relationship.com/education http://blendedlear.ning.com http://connecting-online.ning.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WikiEducator" group. 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