Hi, Nuno.
I don't think removing the IGESPAR template from files makes sense even if
there is a category for the object.
Note that the template can be changed so that it shows a different text and
categorize it differently if it is included in different domains.
I already did a few changes to the template so that it only includes the
[[Category:Cultural heritage monuments in Portugal with known IDs]] in file
pages.
This makes sure that the same template can be used for your issue 1. and the
issue 2. It also means that we can change the {{IGESPAR}}, {{SIPA}},
whatever, to have similar behaviour in file pages in order to categorize in
the same top-level category. I don't think there is a problem to have a file
both down the category tree and in a over-arching category with all photos.
Best,
Gonçalo
2011/8/3 Nuno Tavares <[email protected]>
> Hello all,
>
> I didn't quite get the beginning of this thread, but I have some remarks
> from what I understand. First of all, there seem to be two issues here:
>
> 1. Organization issue: Having a category tree to allow browsing by
> "ID-enabled" images (in WLM-PT we have linked commons categories with
> object ids whenever possible);
>
> 2. Convenience issue: Having a specific category for images of country
> objects to pass on to the jury, as a pool of candidates.
>
> Jane, the unfortunate part is that I've been removing the {{IGESPAR}}
> template from all images I've found whenever there is a category for the
> "objects" in question (or one that I have created for that purpose).
> That's what makes sense to me, anyway, but doesn't invalidate having
> whatever top-categories - in this case, "Cultural heritage monuments in
> Portugal with known IDs" (it would aggregate
> {{IGESPAR}}+{{DRAC-RAM}}+{{DRAM-RAA}} then, although I'm (lazily) using
> Category:IGESPAR for that.
>
> Lodewijk, complementing, the country-specific category could be fetched
> from the parameters passed to the form, right? I believe we already
> agreed on passing an ID and a Country.
>
> Susana, I actually believe we should categorize a lot! See:
> - Images_from_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2011, for those who want to dig into
> *all* images from *all* contries - like Europeana's Art Noveau Juri;
> - Images_from_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2011_Portugal, for Portuguese Juri;
> - Imóveis_de_Interesse_Público_in_Lisbon (replace "Imóveis de Interesse
> Público" and "Lisbon" accordingly) to keep up with the current category
> structure, which is IGESPAR related.
> - Campo_Pequeno - which is the building category;
> - IGESPAR - inherited from {{IGESPAR}} (and due to my laziness, DRAC-RAM
> and DRAC-RAA) which is used to tag an ID into the picture (or category).
> - Up to now, I'm expected that the categories get automatically placed,
> either from the form, or a post-bot-run. Eventually there are others:
> manually inserted, like "Palaces in Portugal", and those related to
> geolocalization that don't interfere with anything, I believe.
>
> In short, Jane and Susana, I wouldn't mix {{IGESPAR}} and
> {{Images_from_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2011_Portugal}} purposes. The former
> is for keeping a link between the lists, and the second is for the Juri.
>
> You can imagine how the bottom of the page will look, though :)
>
>
> Béria, just a note regarding SIPA and IGESPAR: only IGESPAR's objects
> have some kind of protection; this means SIPA's shouldn't have
> designations like "Monumento Nacional". In the end, roughly, all SIPA
> are "unprotected".
>
> This also means the everyone relying to IGESPAR id should be clarified
> by now: the monument ID is a specific WLM id. Its range will dictate to
> which it refers to: IGESPAR, Azores, Madeira or SIPA.
>
>
>
> --
> Nuno Tavares
> Wikimedia Portugal
> http://www.wikimedia.pt
>
> Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que
> estamos a fazer.
>
> Participe também: http://www.wikimedia.pt
>
> Em 03-08-2011 09:53, Lodewijk escreveu:
> > There should be country specific subcategories there indeed - you are
> > correct :) I suggest putting this category /in/ your country specific
> > contest template. Not sure if someone already designed one actually to
> > be re-used. Besides that I believe there are some temporary categories
> > involved, like "needs to be included in the lists" etc which involved
> > more manual work but can be done by anyone who knows Wikipedia.
> >
> > Best,
> > Lodewijk
> >
> > 2011/8/3 Susana Morais <[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I have some questions. For the WLM competition we will ask the
> > participant to upload the photo with the ID number (he has
> > previously seen in that great list we have in our site :)). Then the
> > photo will be automatically (?) tagged under a specific sub-cat in
> > this
> > category
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Images_from_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2011
> ,
> > right? Do the categories need to be more specific for the
> > competition (this doenst mean we shouldnt be thinking how to
> > organize them better after the wlm)? I think that it is easier
> > during the WLM to have all photos in the competition in one simple
> > category (easier for the jury).
> >
> > Susana
> >
> >
> > 2011/8/3 Jane Darnell <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >
> > Béria,
> > The key here is the word "monument". In order for a WLM
> > participant to upload a photo based on local instructions, he
> > needs an ID number. Presumeably he/she has found this number
> > from your wonderful Portuguese map with ID coordinates on your
> > WLM website, am I right?
> >
> > In the Netherlands, some (not ALL) Rijksmonuments have the
> > number physically on a brown plaque on the building itself. What
> > do you call this number? I assume you do not call it "Cultural
> > heritage monument number". In order to match it to either the
> > IGESPAR or SIPA numbers you will need to have a key in the ID
> > number, won't you?
> >
> > I noticed the following situation:
> > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Campo_Pequeno_Lisboa
> > is tagged with the template {{IGESPAR|74571|type=IIP}}
> > I would therefore expect to see this category have photo's
> > tagged with this same number, but for example,
> > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Campo_Pequeno_lisbon.JPG
> > is not tagged.
> > I would expect the category to be placed in a category called
> > "Category:IGESPAR objects in Lisbon (district)", but I see the
> > category "Category:Imóveis de Interesse Público in Lisbon
> > (district)" instead.
> >
> > I suppose the template sub-tag "IIP" stands for "Imóveis de
> > Interesse Público", so I get that you have broken your
> > designations down by type, but I am curious how you will
> > instruct the jury to choose foto's if the photo's themselves are
> > not tagged. Though my Portuguese is pretty bad, I think the
> > (spectacular) pictures of the bulls themselves, which are also
> > in that category are not "Imóveis".
> >
> > Jane
> >
> > 2011/8/3 Béria Lima <[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >
> > We have lists outside IGESPAR. The IGESPAR one has 4K
> > monuments, the SIPA one almost 40K. We are using both.
> > _____
> > /Béria Lima/
> > Wikimedia Portugal <http://wikimedia.pt>
> > (351) 963 953 042
> >
> > /Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a
> > possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o
> > conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer./
> >
> >
> > On 3 August 2011 08:39, Jane Darnell <[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >
> > Béria,
> > Maybe I am just too unfamiliar with the technicalities,
> > but my feeling would be yes, stuff all 4 categories into
> > "IGESPAR objects in Portugal with known IDs". Under this
> > toplevel, there should be for example, a category called
> > "Monumentos Nacionais with known IDs".
> >
> > Is there a problem with the WLM database that you can't
> > have subcategories for the top-level ones? Or do you
> > mean that you have lists outside of IGESPAR?
> >
> > Jane
> >
> >
> > 2011/8/2 Béria Lima <[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >
> > Portugal can't use a single name. We have 4 types of
> > monuments ( see here:
> >
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2011_in_Portugal
> > ).
> >
> > We can create 4 "main categories", but they would
> > still need to be under a "Cultural Heritage in
> > Portugal" category.
> > _____
> > /Béria Lima/
> > Wikimedia Portugal <http://wikimedia.pt>
> > (351) 963 953 042
> >
> > /Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a
> > possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de
> > todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a
> > fazer./
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2 August 2011 11:11, Kilian Kluge
> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jane,
> >
> > in Germany the trouble is that in every state
> > there are different names for essentially the
> > same thing. Some just have "Kulturdenkmale"
> > (cultural heritage monuments), some have
> > "Baudenkmale" ("building heritage monuments"),
> > some have both, some differentiate between three
> > or four categories... It's already a bit
> > confusing on de-wp, where as a result the lists
> > for each state have different naming schemes,
> > and I doubt that it'd be helpful to carry this
> > to Commons.
> >
> > Kilian
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 7:55 AM, Jane Darnell
> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I am sending out a new message, since I feel
> > this issue is pretty important and impacts a
> > lot of Wikipedia projects. The other issues
> > that Bas addressed also need follow up, but
> > let's tackle these categories first.
> >
> > This is the list of categories as they stand
> > today on Commons in the top level category
> > (see the email from Bas):
> > Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
> > Andorra with known IDs
> > Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
> > Austria with known IDs
> > Category:Onroerend erfgoed with known IDs
> > Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
> > Brussels with known IDs
> > Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
> > Estonia (with known IDs)
> > Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
> > Hesse with known ID
> > Category:Rijksmonumenten with known IDs
> > Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
> > Portugal with known IDs
> > Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
> > Romania with known IDs
> > Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
> > Spain with known IDs
> > Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
> > Wallonia with known IDs
> >
> > I think only the Belgians and the Dutch have
> > chosen their names well, because they are
> > using the terms that are covered by law in
> > their country. The other categories should
> > be renamed to reflect the legal term in
> > those countries. My reasons are as follows:
> > 1) The term "Cultural heritage monument" is
> > not defined anywhere, in any country's
> > wikipedia.
> > 2) We are using a formal designation that
> > has been assigned by a government agency and
> > is covered by the European Council's
> > international law on cultural property. In
> > order to refer to the proper designation, we
> > need the formal name of the designation.
> > 3) The sub categories are going to have
> > native names anyway, so why have a strangely
> > named top-level category that no one
> > understands (including English-speakers)?
> > 4) When we make interwiki links to these
> > things we should be consistent across all
> > countries.
> >
> > I noticed a confusing situation has already
> > occurred in the German Wikipedia, where the
> > top level category for the Austrian
> > monuments is "Kategorie:Liste
> > (Kulturdenkmale in Österreich)", when I
> > fully expected it to be
> > "Kategorie:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekte". On
> > Commons I would expect
> > "Category:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekte with
> > known IDs", and in the English Wikipedia, I
> > named it "Category:Denkmalgeschütztes
> Objekte".
> >
> > Jane
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> > [email protected]
> > <mailto:
> [email protected]>
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
> > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
> >
> >
> >
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> > [email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
> > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > [email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
> > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
> > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
> > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
> > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
> > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
> > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
>
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