Dear All
Sorry fot delay from side in replying this discussion thread since my schedules
on field work are going to tight.While I do not blame inscript users and
supporters for going beyond the given scope and focus of the discussion since
may of them are not aware of earlier discussions we had on Marathi Wikipedia or
missing on some of the finer points,still it is my responsibility to reply the
same.
For inscript supporters I earnestly request to trust in me for my neutral POV,
that I have studied their set of arguments in great detail , I have tried
myself to promote and teach inscript personally in field .I have been involved
in co-ordinating a yahoogroup called Devnagari and had been studying all
aspects of the issues involved since long.That I have studied patterns of
mistakes committed by new comers on Marathi Wikipedia in great details. Please
do trust in me that every step I intend to take will be in best favour of
Marathi Language and marathi language Wikipedia.
1)Why do we need to have Marathi Typing as default system
Over the years I have been studying patterns of difficulties encountered by
newcomers and anonymous users on Marathi Wikipedia .I have also conducted field
surveys during Wikipedia training sessions and the first hurdle encountered
availabilty of Marathi Font .Huge number of trail and error edits are happening
in roman script Marathi and not because they are trying to type in roman but
actually majority thinks that if they start typing it automatically comes in to
marathi by phonetic transliteration.A visit to history of Marathi Wikipedia
trail and error Sandbox pageविकिपीडिया:धूळपाटी speaks for itself
The current situation is not only their edits are getting deleted as spam , by
not providing the requisite user friendly support levels we are discouraging
great numbers from using marathi typing at all and as marketing background
person I know it creats it only helps in creating a negative image and negative
publicity To me this amounts to great disservice to Marathi language. (I will
be replying some related FAQs ahead in this mail)
2) Default OK but why phonetic and why not inscript
a) inscript needs considerable user practice and special time involvement and
effort before using it. Still the majority of users come from Shared computers
of offices , educational institutions or Cybercafes or shared computers which
to provide facility to enable Marathi Unicode typing support from authorities
does not come easily Second aspect shared computing does not provide for
required time besides they usually are not authorised to paste any stickers of
Marathi alphabates on computer keyboards they are using.
b) When people are trying to write on Marathi Wikipedia they are already in a
thought process which demands immidiate expression i.e.result so compelling
them for a long inscript training time at that moment is not worth a trying
option .Besides in the field I have personally obsrved that compelling people
to use inscript only is found to be discouraging the majority. The simmiller
view is shared by many who work in field for promotion of marathi unicode
typing including Mr.Tushar Pawar of Marathi abhyas Kendra shared similler view
point.
c)During Wikipedia editing trainings too as a trainer in field time available
for training on how to type is too short .We need least number of processess
and hurdels during these sessions.And for atleast coming two years numbers of
hands on filed training sessions are going to increase phenomenally.
d)Actual field surveys have shown that 46% people are using google
transliterator 40% using local phonetic transliteration of each of Marathi
Website whichever site they go ten percent are using rest of phonetic typing.
most of phonetic typing skill is coming to people from their freinds and peers
through word of mouth.less than 4%are using inscript.Acually 2-4% usage of
inscript also needs to be taken as good news
e) In one of my very recent discussions one of earstwhile GIST inscript expert
himself claimed to me that now inscript is older than google transliterator and
now a days google transliterator and phonetic transliterators are more
intelligent,advance and supportive.
f) It is not for Wikipedia to promote this or that but make those uitilities
available and every body can participate easily without hurdels
By taking all sides in to account I hae come to the conclusion that we will use
phonetic Narayam as default , if technically possible we will try to limit it
for certan popular categories of article pages or we will limit it with Name
space and if that also not possible we will try to agree to a time limit for
Narayam as default on Marathi Wikipedia .
With technical people we will try to find out if we can provide inscript as
default on certain trial and error Sandbox page on Marathi Wikipedia.
Beyond Marathi Wikipedia I have been advocating for Some Unicode typing
competions to build public confidance I have spoken with Marathi Abhyas Kendras
Mr.Deepak Pawar and Tech Marathii Group also Some organisation need to take
lead on this.
I have discussed ceratin ideas with Mr.Rahul Deshmukh fort online typing
tutorials for beginners of phonetics as well as inscript .For inscript I have
requested Sushant for developing more UTube presentation about exactly where to
place the fingures while typing inscript and he has agreed to it.Once these
things are ready we can request various medias and educational bodies to
incorporate more aspects of Marathi Computer typing in their programmes.
Thanks again in participating in the dscussion
Warm Regards
-Mahitgar
________________________________
From: Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia <[email protected]>
To: Marathi Wikipedia <[email protected]>; marathi opensourse
<[email protected]>; deonagari <[email protected]>;
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>;
mumbai list <[email protected]>
Cc: Abhay Natu <[email protected]>; Ajay Garg <[email protected]>;
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>; V Narsikar
<[email protected]>; "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; PRATIK
DIXIT <[email protected]>; Dr Anand Padhye <[email protected]>; Sushant
Devlekar <[email protected]>; "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>; "[email protected]" <[email protected]>;
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>; "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>; Sudhnwa Joglekar <[email protected]>; Omkar
Joshi <[email protected]>; Mandar Kulkarni <[email protected]>; Saleel
Kulkarni <[email protected]>; Kaustubh Samudra <[email protected]>; Mandar
Kulkarni <[email protected]>; Mahitgar From Marathi Wikipedia
<[email protected]>; Madhav Shirvalkar <[email protected]>;
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>; shantanu oak
<[email protected]>; Subhash Pawar <[email protected]>;
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>; "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>; "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>; "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>; Rahuldeshmukh101
<[email protected]>; "[email protected]" <[email protected]>;
vishvakosh nirmiti mandal Wai <[email protected]>; Amit Yadav
<[email protected]>; "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>; v padhye <[email protected]>;
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>; ""Abhishek Suryawanshi""
<[email protected]>; "[email protected]" <[email protected]>;
""Nikhil Kadadi"" <[email protected]>; ""Pallavi Kelkar""
<[email protected]>; ""sagar markal"" <[email protected]>;
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, 13 December 2011 10:49 AM
Subject: Fw: [Bug 32669] Enable Narayam on mr.wikipedia
Dear All
From Marathi Language Wikipedia we had requested mediawiki technical team to
make a phonetic Marathi font transliteration system default for all anonymous
users and new editors who have not completed edits upto 500 edits just simply
because if we study edits of new comers and anonymous users it seems that they
usualy do not understand how to enable present optional transliteration system.
the Narayam extension as updated for Marathi Language is in beta version
available for testing attranslatewiki.net . We have received following reply to
our Our technical request which is submitted at
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32669
This is for your information and discussion after the discussion we will put
the information on Marathi Wikipedia poll page and confirm apropriate marathi
wikipedia community decesion.
Following forwarded reply is self explanatory, We seek openions from all of you
so this is for your information and discussion .Please keep this discussion in
english so non marathi development team members can understand our discussion.
Regards
mahitgar
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, 12 December 2011 12:35 PM
Subject: [Bug 32669] Enable Narayam on mr.wikipedia
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32669
--- Comment #2 from Santhosh Thottingal <[email protected]>
2011-12-12 07:05:32 UTC ---
(In reply to comment #0)
> Dear All ,
> Thanks for updating Narayam to Marathi Language requirements in recent
> Hackathon in Mumbai.(You can view the google online presentation at
> [https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1uWz-tCvrRg5GaPh5lD_0aPy9CnUmRUVaHcs10rUYkYU/edit]
>
>
> Now herewith Marathi Language Wikipedia requests to enable Narayam extension
> on
> Marathi Language Wikipedia with along with following features (Please see
> Community aproval http://mr.wikipedia.org/wiki/विकिपीडिया:कौल )
The extension is available at translatewiki.net , and we marked as beta till we
get feedback from the community that it is stable can be enabled in
mr.wikipedia. So please test and give us confirmation that it works as
expected.
> 1)Narayam should be default font inputting
system for all unregistered users
> and all users for upto 500 edit
We can make Narayam enabled by default. But the extension does not check the
edits count.
> 2) The requested inputting facility should be applicable on all namespaces
> including inter active popup windows meant for inserting links and references
This should be ok.
> 3)Also applicable at edit summary,all search windows,all input boxes specialy
> "type=create" group
The extension will be enabled in all editable fields.
> 4)Shall have Marathi inscript keyboard layout option too as per windows
> non-default option
Transliteration is the default one.
> 5)Should be applicable to all skins including vector
We don't support all the mediiawiki skins. Extension supports Vector,
Monobook, Modern skins.
> 6. Narayam should be default to above said
user category to New User Creation
> and User Login
Extension does not distinguish uses based on any category.
> 7.Narayam keyboard structure should be editable to Marathi Wikipedia sysops at
> local level
No, The extension does not provide this feature.
If the community is ok with the extension after verifying it at
translatewiki.net, please inform us here. We will enable it in mr wikis in the
next i18n deployment.
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