Re: [Wikimedia-IN-PUN] [Bug 32669] Why we are going with phonetic as default on mr.wikipedia

[Mandar Kulkarni]

I fully agree with Mahitgar and support strongly on his views.... 

 
 
With Regards,

Mandar V. Kulkarni
http://mr.wikipedia.org



>________________________________
> From: Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia <mahit...@yahoo.co.in>
>To: Marathi Wikipedia <mr-w...@yahoogroups.com>; marathi opensourse 
><marathiopensou...@yahoogroups.com>; deonagari <deonag...@yahoogroups.com>; 
>"Wikimedia-IN-PUN@lists.wikimedia.org" <Wikimedia-IN-PUN@lists.wikimedia.org>; 
>mumbai list <wikimedia-in-...@lists.wikimedia.org> 
>Cc: Abhay Natu <an...@yahoo.com>; Ajay Garg <ajaygarg2...@gmail.com>; 
>"anand.kati...@gmail.com" <anand.kati...@gmail.com>; V Narsikar 
><v.narsi...@gmail.com>; "bhashap...@gmail.com" <bhashap...@gmail.com>; PRATIK 
>DIXIT <ppdi...@gmail.com>; Dr Anand Padhye <adpad...@gmail.com>; Sushant 
>Devlekar <sushant.devle...@gmail.com>; "head.mara...@bamu.net" 
><head.mara...@bamu.net>; "iamhars...@yahoo.com" <iamhars...@yahoo.com>; 
>"i...@pujasoft.net" <i...@pujasoft.net>; "i...@vishwakosh.org.in" 
><i...@vishwakosh.org.in>; Sudhnwa Joglekar <sudhanwa....@gmail.com>; Omkar 
>Joshi <josh9...@gmail.com>; Mandar Kulkarni <mvkulkarn...@yahoo.co.uk>; Saleel 
>Kulkarni <sale...@gmail.com>; Kaustubh Samudra <ksamu...@gmail.com>; Mahitgar 
>From Marathi Wikipedia <mahit...@gmail.com>; Madhav Shirvalkar 
><mshirval...@gmail.com>; "msrki...@gmail.com" <msrki...@gmail.com>; shantanu 
>oak <shantanu....@gmail.com>; Subhash Pawar <sypa...@gmail.com>; 
>"prabodh1...@gmail.com"
 <prabodh1...@gmail.com>; "puremara...@gmail.com" <puremara...@gmail.com>; 
"rahuldeshmukh...@gmail.com" <rahuldeshmukh...@gmail.com>; Rahuldeshmukh101 
<rahuldeshmukh...@rediffmail.com>; "r...@cdacb.ernet.in" <r...@cdacb.ernet.in>; 
vishvakosh nirmiti mandal Wai <vish...@yahoo.com>; Amit Yadav 
<amityad...@gmail.com>; "santhosh.thottin...@gmail.com" 
<santhosh.thottin...@gmail.com>; v padhye <v.pad...@gmail.com>; 
"atultul...@gmail.com" <atultul...@gmail.com>; ""Abhishek Suryawanshi"" 
<abhi.surya2...@gmail.com>; "harshad.g...@gmail.com" <harshad.g...@gmail.com>; 
""Nikhil Kadadi"" <nik...@techmarathi.com>; ""Pallavi Kelkar"" 
<pall...@techmarathi.com>; ""sagar markal"" <shree.sagar...@gmail.com>; 
"mil...@thebhandarakars.com" <mil...@thebhandarakars.com>; 
"umeshkast...@gmail.com" <umeshkast...@gmail.com>; "tusharpawar1...@gmail.com" 
<tusharpawar1...@gmail.com>; "santhad...@gmail.com" <santhad...@gmail.com>; 
"shanta...@gmail.com" <shanta...@gmail.com> 
>Sent: Thursday, 5 January 2012, 7:21
>Subject: Re: [Bug 32669] Why we are going with phonetic as default on 
>mr.wikipedia
> 
>
>Dear All 
>
>
>
>Sorry fot delay from side in replying this discussion thread since my 
>schedules on field work are going to tight.While I do not blame inscript users 
>and supporters for going beyond the given scope and focus  of the discussion 
>since may of them are not aware of earlier discussions we had on Marathi 
>Wikipedia or missing on some of the finer points,still it is my responsibility 
>to reply the same.
>
>
>For inscript supporters I earnestly request to trust in me for my neutral 
>POV,  that I have studied their set of arguments in great detail , I have 
>tried myself to promote and teach inscript personally in field .I have been 
>involved in co-ordinating a yahoogroup called Devnagari and had been studying 
>all aspects of the issues involved since long.That I have studied patterns of 
>mistakes committed by new comers on Marathi Wikipedia in great details. Please 
>do trust in me that every step I intend to take will be in best favour of 
>Marathi Language and marathi language Wikipedia. 
>
>
>
>1)Why do we need to have Marathi Typing as default system 
>
>Over the years I have been studying patterns of difficulties encountered by 
>newcomers and anonymous users on Marathi Wikipedia .I have also conducted 
>field surveys during Wikipedia training sessions and the first hurdle 
>encountered availabilty of Marathi Font .Huge number of trail and error edits 
>are happening in roman script Marathi and not because they are trying to type 
>in roman but actually majority thinks that if they start typing it 
>automatically comes in to marathi by phonetic  transliteration.A visit to 
>history of Marathi Wikipedia trail and error Sandbox pageविकिपीडिया:धूळपाटी  
>speaks for itself
>
>
>The current situation is not only their  edits are getting deleted as spam , 
>by not providing the requisite user friendly support levels we are 
>discouraging great numbers from using marathi typing at all and as marketing 
>background person I know it creats it only helps in creating a negative image 
>and negative publicity To me this amounts to great disservice to Marathi 
>language. (I will be replying some related FAQs ahead in this mail)
>
>
>
>2) Default OK but why phonetic and why not inscript 
>
>
>
>a) inscript needs considerable user practice and special time involvement and 
>effort before  using it. Still the majority of users come from Shared 
>computers of offices , educational institutions or Cybercafes or shared 
>computers which  to provide facility to enable Marathi Unicode typing support 
>from authorities does not come easily Second aspect shared computing does not 
>provide for required time besides they usually are not authorised to paste any 
>stickers of Marathi alphabates on computer keyboards they are using.
>
>
>b) When people are trying to write on Marathi Wikipedia they are already in a 
>thought process which demands immidiate expression i.e.result so compelling 
>them for a long inscript training time at that moment is not worth a trying 
>option .Besides in the field I have personally obsrved that compelling people 
>to use inscript only is found to be discouraging the majority. The simmiller 
>view is shared by many who work in field for promotion of marathi unicode 
>typing including Mr.Tushar Pawar of Marathi abhyas Kendra shared similler view 
>point.
>
>
>c)During Wikipedia editing trainings too as a trainer in field time available 
>for training on how to type is too short .We need least number of processess 
>and hurdels during these sessions.And for atleast coming two years numbers of 
>hands on filed training sessions are going to increase phenomenally. 
>
>
>
>d)Actual field surveys have shown that 46% people are using google 
>transliterator 40% using local phonetic transliteration of each of Marathi 
>Website whichever site they go ten percent are using rest of phonetic typing. 
>most of phonetic typing skill is coming to people from their freinds and peers 
>through word of mouth.less than 4%are using inscript.Acually 2-4% usage of 
>inscript also needs to be taken as good news 
>
>
>
>e) In one of my very recent discussions one of earstwhile GIST inscript expert 
>himself claimed to me that now inscript is older than google transliterator 
>and now a days google transliterator and phonetic transliterators are more 
>intelligent,advance and supportive.
>
>
>f) It is not for Wikipedia to promote this or that but make those uitilities 
>available and every body can participate easily without hurdels
>
>
>By taking all sides in to account I hae come to the conclusion that we will 
>use phonetic Narayam as default , if technically possible we will try to limit 
>it for certan popular categories of article pages or we will limit it with 
>Name space and if that also not possible we will try to agree to a time limit 
>for Narayam as default on Marathi Wikipedia . 
>
>
>
>With technical people we will try to find out if we can provide inscript as 
>default on certain trial and error Sandbox page on Marathi Wikipedia.
>
>
>
>
>Beyond Marathi Wikipedia I have been advocating for Some Unicode typing 
>competions to build public confidance I have spoken with Marathi Abhyas 
>Kendras Mr.Deepak Pawar and Tech Marathii Group also Some organisation need to 
>take lead on this.
>
>
>I have discussed ceratin ideas with Mr.Rahul Deshmukh fort online typing 
>tutorials for beginners of phonetics as well as  inscript .For inscript I have 
>requested Sushant for developing more UTube presentation about exactly where 
>to place the fingures while typing inscript and he has agreed to it.Once these 
>things are ready we can request various medias and educational bodies to 
>incorporate more aspects of Marathi Computer typing in their programmes.
>
>
>
>Thanks again in participating in the dscussion 
>
>Warm Regards
>-Mahitgar
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia <mahit...@yahoo.co.in>
>To: Marathi Wikipedia <mr-w...@yahoogroups.com>; marathi opensourse 
><marathiopensou...@yahoogroups.com>; deonagari <deonag...@yahoogroups.com>; 
>"Wikimedia-IN-PUN@lists.wikimedia.org" <Wikimedia-IN-PUN@lists.wikimedia.org>; 
>mumbai list <wikimedia-in-...@lists.wikimedia.org> 
>Cc: Abhay Natu <an...@yahoo.com>; Ajay Garg <ajaygarg2...@gmail.com>; 
>"anand.kati...@gmail.com" <anand.kati...@gmail.com>; V Narsikar 
><v.narsi...@gmail.com>; "bhashap...@gmail.com" <bhashap...@gmail.com>; PRATIK 
>DIXIT <ppdi...@gmail.com>; Dr Anand Padhye <adpad...@gmail.com>; Sushant 
>Devlekar <sushant.devle...@gmail.com>; "head.mara...@bamu.net" 
><head.mara...@bamu.net>; "iamhars...@yahoo.com" <iamhars...@yahoo.com>; 
>"i...@pujasoft.net" <i...@pujasoft.net>; "i...@vishwakosh.org.in" 
><i...@vishwakosh.org.in>; Sudhnwa Joglekar <sudhanwa....@gmail.com>; Omkar 
>Joshi <josh9...@gmail.com>; Mandar Kulkarni <mvkulkarn...@yahoo.co.uk>; Saleel 
>Kulkarni <sale...@gmail.com>; Kaustubh Samudra <ksamu...@gmail.com>; Mandar 
>Kulkarni <mvkulkarn...@yahoo.co.uk>; Mahitgar From Marathi Wikipedia 
><mahit...@gmail.com>; Madhav Shirvalkar <mshirval...@gmail.com>; 
>"msrki...@gmail.com" <msrki...@gmail.com>; shantanu oak 
><shantanu....@gmail.com>; Subhash Pawar <sypa...@gmail.com>;
 "prabodh1...@gmail.com" <prabodh1...@gmail.com>; "puremara...@gmail.com" 
<puremara...@gmail.com>; "rahuldeshmukh...@gmail.com" 
<rahuldeshmukh...@gmail.com>; "rahuldeshmukh...@gmail.com" 
<rahuldeshmukh...@gmail.com>; Rahuldeshmukh101 
<rahuldeshmukh...@rediffmail.com>; "r...@cdacb.ernet.in" <r...@cdacb.ernet.in>; 
vishvakosh nirmiti mandal Wai <vish...@yahoo.com>; Amit Yadav 
<amityad...@gmail.com>; "santhosh.thottin...@gmail.com" 
<santhosh.thottin...@gmail.com>; v padhye <v.pad...@gmail.com>; 
"atultul...@gmail.com" <atultul...@gmail.com>; ""Abhishek Suryawanshi"" 
<abhi.surya2...@gmail.com>; "harshad.g...@gmail.com" <harshad.g...@gmail.com>; 
""Nikhil Kadadi"" <nik...@techmarathi.com>; ""Pallavi Kelkar"" 
<pall...@techmarathi.com>; ""sagar markal"" <shree.sagar...@gmail.com>; 
"mil...@thebhandarakars.com" <mil...@thebhandarakars.com> 
>Sent: Tuesday, 13 December 2011 10:49 AM
>Subject: Fw: [Bug 32669] Enable Narayam on mr.wikipedia
> 
>
>Dear All 
>
>From Marathi Language Wikipedia we had requested mediawiki technical team to 
>make a phonetic Marathi font  transliteration system default for all anonymous 
>users and new editors who have not completed edits upto 500 edits  just simply 
>because if we study edits of new comers and anonymous users it seems that they 
>usualy do not understand how to enable present optional transliteration system.
>
>
> the Narayam extension as updated for Marathi Language is in beta version 
> available for testing attranslatewiki.net . We have received following reply 
> to our  Our technical request  which is  submitted at 
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32669 
>
>
>
>This is for your information and discussion after the discussion we will put 
>the information on Marathi Wikipedia poll page and confirm apropriate marathi 
>wikipedia community decesion.
>
>
>Following forwarded reply is self explanatory, We seek openions from all of 
>you so this is for your information and discussion .Please keep this 
>discussion in english so non marathi development team members can understand 
>our discussion.
>
>
>Regards
>mahitgar
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Forwarded Message -----
>From: "bugzilla-dae...@wikimedia.org" <bugzilla-dae...@wikimedia.org>
>To: mahit...@yahoo.co.in 
>Sent: Monday, 12 December 2011 12:35 PM
>Subject: [Bug 32669] Enable Narayam on mr.wikipedia
> 
>https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32669
>
>--- Comment #2 from Santhosh Thottingal <santhosh.thottin...@gmail.com> 
>2011-12-12 07:05:32 UTC ---
>(In reply to comment #0)
>> Dear All ,
>> Thanks for updating Narayam to Marathi Language requirements in recent
>> Hackathon in Mumbai.(You can view the
 google online presentation at
>> [https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1uWz-tCvrRg5GaPh5lD_0aPy9CnUmRUVaHcs10rUYkYU/edit]
>>  
>> 
>> Now herewith Marathi Language Wikipedia requests to enable Narayam extension 
>> on
>> Marathi Language Wikipedia with along with following features (Please see
>> Community aproval http://mr.wikipedia.org/wiki/विकिपीडिया:कौल )
>
>The extension is available at translatewiki.net , and we marked as beta till we
>get feedback from the community that it is stable can be enabled in
>mr.wikipedia. So please test and give us confirmation that it works
 as
>expected.
>
>> 1)Narayam should be default font inputting
 system  for all unregistered users
>> and all users for upto 500 edit
>
>We can make Narayam enabled by default. But the extension does not check the
>edits count. 
>
>> 2) The requested inputting facility should be applicable on all  namespaces
>> including  inter active popup windows meant for inserting links and 
>> references
>
>This should be ok.
>
>> 3)Also applicable  at edit summary,all search windows,all input boxes 
>> specialy
>> "type=create" group
>
>The extension will be enabled in all editable fields.
>
>> 4)Shall have Marathi inscript keyboard layout option too as per windows
>> non-default  option
>
>Transliteration is the default one.
>
>> 5)Should be applicable to all skins including vector
>
>We don't support all the mediiawiki skins. Extension  supports Vector,
>Monobook, Modern skins.
>
>> 6. Narayam should be default to above said
 user category to New User Creation
>> and User Login
>
>Extension does not distinguish uses based on any category.
>
>> 7.Narayam keyboard structure should be editable to Marathi Wikipedia sysops 
>> at
>> local level
>
>No, The extension does not provide this feature.
>
>If the community is ok with the extension after verifying it at
>translatewiki.net,  please inform us here. We will enable it in mr wikis in the
>next i18n deployment.
>
>-- 
>Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
>------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
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>
>
>
>
>
>
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