I haven't had that experience with lightweight markup around here. The
humanities, journalism, and creative-writing academics are the ones who
seem to be the most enthusiastic adopters of Markdown in particular.
It's taking off quite a bit as part of a simplify/concentrate movement,
where people find WYSIWYG editors like Word too distracting, so have
moved to using Markdown as a minimalist editing environment to
concentrate on writing, at least for drafts. It also helps that it's
easy to e-mail around. People Who Code are actually mostly absent from
that trend— I don't think I've ever met a computer scientist who writes
papers in Markdown.
Wikitext, of course, especially as typically used in Wikipedia, does not
look as nice and minimalist as an article draft in Markdown does. Which
is where I think the majority of the problem lies, not in the concept of
markup itself.
-Mark
On 10/25/14, 9:46 PM, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
People Who Are Able to Edit Articles But Not to Code dismiss wiki syntax
much more than I do.
Most of them don't even bother to begin to understand it. The few who do
are a rare exception. A wiki syntax IDE will not "go a long way", as the
article says, in helping them edit. They will still be forced to do mental
mapping from [[]] to links, from ==== to headings, and so on, even if it's
shown side-by-side.
--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2014-10-25 21:22 GMT+03:00 Martijn Hoekstra <martijnhoeks...@gmail.com>:
On Oct 25, 2014 8:03 PM, "Amir E. Aharoni" <amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>
wrote:
Perpetuating it with a dedicated IDE wouldn't help it go away.
I doubt that. Side by side wikitext and result, making you see the result
of either in the other in real time could help adoption of wysiwyg
techniques, help improve them, and help people ease in to using them. Your
wonton dismissiveness is worrysome to me.
בתאריך 25 באוק 2014 20:51, "Martijn Hoekstra" <martijnhoeks...@gmail.com
כתב:
On Oct 25, 2014 7:20 PM, "Amir E. Aharoni" <
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il
wrote:
Because, even though I'm well aware of the fact that lots of
experienced
wikipedians love wiki syntax, the wiki syntax must go away, and will
go
away. Maybe in five years, maybe ten, maybe twenty. But it will go
away.
Investing effort in an IDE for it is pointless.
So fortunately we didn't invest in something five years ago with an
expected lifespan of 10 to 25 years?
Templates are, indeed, programs. Articles aren't. Wikidata and Winter
(or
something like Winter) will remove the need to edit transclusions as
part
of the articles' source code in maybe three years (maybe much less).
Development should focus on that, rather than on an IDE for a
language
that
should as soon as possible become transparent to all editors.
(This is not an official representation of the Wikimedia Foundation's
opinion.)
בתאריך 25 באוק 2014 19:40, "Martijn Hoekstra" <
martijnhoeks...@gmail.com
כתב:
On Oct 25, 2014 6:17 PM, "Amir E. Aharoni" <
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il
wrote:
Thank goodness this wasn't written five years ago, otherwise
somebody
could
get the awful idea to implement it.
Having a side by side really time wikitext - display doesn't sound
like
an
aweful idea at all to me. I'm quite surprised anyone would find
that
aweful
actually. I don't understand why you're so dismissive of that idea.
--Martijn
בתאריך 25 באוק 2014 18:26, "Kim Bruning" <k...@bruning.xs4all.nl>
כתב:
I spotted this article linked from news.ycombinator.com,
arguing -well- what it says on the tin. ;-)
Apologies if someone else already posted a link.
https://medium.com/@MrJamesFisher/wikipedia-needs-an-ide-not-a-wysiwyg-editor-7acd85b582c8
I'm not sure <scratches head>. Well, if we allow lua in
templates,
I suppose things actually are already pretty Interesting.
sincerely,
Kim Bruning
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