There are many ways to do this, which one is best, really depends on the 'Trust Level' in the group. I have found that it is easier to develop trust on a one on one basis, ( I trust you , and you trust John, so by the virtue of my trust in you, I can trust John...etc).Sometimes doing things at a Group Level tends to be better other times, it complicates simple matters. The most important thing to keep in mind is that, the agreements should be aligned to make sure that everyone's interests are in alignment.
In most of my dealings, the primary contract is held by one of the ISP, and they are billing the 'downstream' isp. e.g. We are the primary contract holder for IP Transit out of Atlanta.... and another ISP is the primary contract holder for IP Transit out of Miami, etc... The key area of contentions are two .... 1. Make sure that the Primary Contract holder is financially strong and not going to dip out on the contract. 2. Make sure that ISP/WISP's have a good / open communication among each other and have a high level of Trust between each other. ----------- Heck, most of the Wireline ISP's in Florida are now 'private peered' with each other, have been buying / selling excess capacity and leveraging existing contracts for distance sensitive services from each other's POP's... And now, working on doing the SAME one our Wireless Networks as we are building them out.... It makes no sense for me to go into the next county to build a tower when I can purchase access at a pre-negotiated rate from the ISP who is 'Local' to that county.. and vice versa. ..Yes, most of us are not going after the sub $50 or accounts... Those tend to be piddly.. rather just refer those customers to the local ISP/WISP, but getting customers who are looking for t1 replacements / upgrade or Metro Ethernet Replacements / upgrades running into hundreds of $ / month. plenty of margin to keep everyone happy.. makes it a far better business practice than the alternative. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom On 9/3/2010 7:56 AM, Ryan Goldberg wrote: > Faisal- > > I'm working to organize group-buys of transit out of my own internet > backwater. I'm curious as to what (if any) legal entity was formed/used to > engage in business with carriers. > > Any input is appreciated. > > Ryan > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz >> Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 6:45 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers >> >> Mike, >> Keep beating the drum, maybe sooner than later it will sink in. >> >> FWIW, we have been doing this with a few of other Wireline ISP's as >> well.... I myself am sharing into circuits / IP transit contract held >> by >> other ISP's and also have others sharing into circuits that I have the >> contract for. >> >> We are doing that out of two cities, Atlanta and Miami, in some cases >> getting stuff out of Atlanta was less expensive, and in other cases out >> of Miami... >> >> If any of the WISP's wish to explore getting 'transport' to Atlanta / >> Telx 56 Marrietta, and picking up IP transit from there, we will be >> more >> than happy to guide them / help them explore as to what is there best >> option. >> >> I know of other ISP's who have great contracts out of Dallas and other >> Data Centers that would be willing to do such as well. >> >> >> Faisal Imtiaz >> Snappy Internet& Telecom >> >> >> On 9/3/2010 7:33 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >>> I've been beating that drum for years, Faisal. Most don't want to >>> hear it and would rather keep crying. I've only found a couple that >>> truly have limited options. >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/3/2010 5:04 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: >>>> I sincerely believe that this is one area if the WISP's worked >> together >>>> and also used some outside the box thinking, can really benefit each >>>> other and their businesses. >>>> >>>> There is no clear cut solution that works for each and everyone. >>>> However there are a series of options to explore... >>>> >>>> Folks paying for DS3 / OC3 .. have to find a local or the local >>>> alternate fiber provider and try to be flexible in "I want to get >> access >>>> @ this location " vs.. "@ Which location can you provide me with >> lowest >>>> cost access ?" ... >>>> >>>> Folks also need to find alternate carriers.. In many cases, there >> are >>>> 3rd party 'transport providers' that have T1 contracts which are a >> lot >>>> less expensive than what the local provider charges for Internet >> Access... >>>> >>>> e.g. in the ILEC land, the ILEC is ALWAYS THE MOST EXPENSIVE To >> purchase >>>> IP transit from... there are always 3rd party providers who USE >> THEIR >>>> MSA's with the ILEC to get less expensive transport and purchase IP >>>> Transit from a Competitive provider.. >>>> >>>> In many cases, it has been less expensive to be able to purchase a >> "Fat >>>> Pipe" (OC3 / DS3 / 100Meg Ethernet / Gig E) transport to a far out >>>> Carrier Neutral Data Center and pickup IP Transit from there than to >>>> purchase IP Transit Locally.. . This is especially true for the >> folks >>>> who are spending more than $2500 in IP Transit. >>>> >>>> Many carrier will not tell you that the next tier is a lot less >>>> expensive...e.g 10meg Access is $800/month, however 100meg on a >> GIGE is >>>> $1200....Unless you ask then explicitly... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Faisal Imtiaz >>>> Snappy Internet& Telecom >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/3/2010 12:37 AM, Mark Dueck wrote: >>>>> I'll repeat the same.. you're lucky if you can get it at 1000/ 6 >> meg. I >>>>> pay 1000/ 1Mb here.. it's crazy. >>>>> >>>>> On 09/02/2010 10:16 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: >>>>>> Consider yourself lucky...in the REAL rural areas we pay over >>>>>> $1000/mth for 6 meg connections. >>>>>> Scott >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> *From:* Travis Johnson<mailto:t...@ida.net> >>>>>> *To:* WISPA General List<mailto:wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers >>>>>> >>>>>> I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 >> connection >>>>>> (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average >> $50/meg as >>>>>> my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated >> connections >>>>>> to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. >>>>>> >>>>>> Travis >>>>>> Microserv >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: >>>>>>> I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would >> work >>>>>>> in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness >> (i.e. >>>>>>> farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. >> My >>>>>>> biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So >> even a >>>>>>> statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply >> to me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Friendly Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------- >> ------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Chuck >> Hogg >>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM >>>>>>> *To:* WISPA General List >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up >> everyday! >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Travis Johnson<t...@ida.net >>>>>>> <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. >> Bandwidth is >>>>>>> CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this >>>>>>> business... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, >> etc. a >>>>>>> cache >>>>>>> proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a >> business >>>>>>> connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional >> bandwidth it may >>>>>>> save me. And I can do this every day. :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Travis >>>>>>> Microserv >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: >>>>>>> > On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >> Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the >> headaches >>>>>>> (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to >> be >>>>>>> cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a >> certain IP >>>>>>> address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming >> from >>>>>>> the cache server IP, etc.). >>>>>>> > Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain >> sites. Just >>>>>>> create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to >> maintain? >>>>>>> Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL >> which >>>>>>> only allows caching of sites you choose. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a >> single IP >>>>>>> then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid- >> cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). >>>>>>> With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as >> if the >>>>>>> requests were sourced directly from a client instead of >> your >>>>>>> Squid box. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using >> WCCP. If >>>>>>> your Squid box dies the router automatically stops >> redirecting >>>>>>> the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web >> normally. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>> > Blake Covarrubias >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------- >> ------------------------- >>>>>>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>> > http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------- >> ------------------------- >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > WISPA Wireless List: >> wireless@wispa.org<mailto:wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------- >>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: >> wireless@wispa.org<mailto:wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------- >>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List:wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Archives:http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------------------- >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------------- >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List:wireless@wispa.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> Archives:http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------------- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------------- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------------ >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------------ >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
