Mayka,

Nirvana and samsara are nothing more than mental constructs. Let's take your 2 
examples as analogies: To some, New York is an intimidating hell full of 
danger, 
corruption and violence. To others, it is a city of adventure, opportunity and 
fun. Similarly with nature (danger/beauty; savage/peaceful etc.). To go beyond 
duality and see the world as it is, is to recognise that nirvana and samsara 
are 
one and the same.

Mike 




________________________________
From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 1 March, 2011 1:40:59
Subject: Re: [Zen] Change

  
The world of samsara is not only created by oneselves alone is also by 
mankind.  
Or is it not?.  Take for instance a big city as New York and getting swallow by 
it.  I think that Lana and Rose were also mentioning the problems of applying 
that selfless in a world of complete samsara.  It's not as difficult when one 
is 
in contact with nature and not as many other human beings.  Humans are the only 
samsara I know for real.  All the rest is just nature.  No self, no samsara.

--- On Mon, 28/2/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote:


>From: mike brown <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [Zen] Change
>To: [email protected]
>Date: Monday, 28 February, 2011, 14:34
>
>
>  
>Mayka,
>
>It is the "real world" - the world of samsara is created by your mind. Bring 
>your Zen off the mat and into the marketplace.
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected]
>Sent: Mon, 28 February, 2011 17:17:15
>Subject: Re: [Zen] Change
>
>  
>This doesn't work for me in the daily survival world.
>It only works when I'm in retreats, amongst practicioners...but not in the 
>real 
>world.  What do you do to make it work in the real world?
>
>--- On Mon, 28/2/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>From: mike brown <[email protected]>
>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Change
>>To: [email protected]
>>Date: Monday, 28 February, 2011, 4:55
>>
>>
>>  
>>Mayka,
>>
>>We create suffering by falsely identifying ourselves with our ego and making 
>>ourselves a me separate from the world. If you understand this, and recognise 
>>it 
>>as outside your "comfort zone", then I'd suggest trying to ground yourself in 
>>that Awareness where you can witness different emotions as happening - but 
>>not 
>>happening to a 'you' . The more you can practice this, the less you'll find 
>>youreslf outside your Comfort Zone.
>>
>>Mike   
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________
From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]>
>>To: [email protected]
>>Sent: Mon, 28 February, 2011 3:13:01
>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Change
>>
>>  
>>Hi Mike:
>>
>>What about when one is not in the comfortable zone?
>>
>>Mayka
>>
>>--- On Sun, 27/2/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>From: mike brown <[email protected]>
>>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Change
>>>To: [email protected]
>>>Date: Sunday, 27 February, 2011, 16:20
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>Hi Mayka,
>>>
>>>Things still happen, but there's no me for them to happen to - hence no 
>>>attacments/aversions that lead to discrimination/duality. You can still chop 
>>>wood and carry water, but with no sense of an I doing something.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________
From: maria818448 <[email protected]>
>>>To: [email protected]
>>>Sent: Mon, 28 February, 2011 1:01:51
>>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Change
>>>
>>>  
>>>Mike:
>>>
>>>How does one function in the real world of survival as non identification 
>>>with 
>>>the ego?. 
>>>
>>>
>>>Mayka
>>>
>>>--- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ED,
>>>> 
>>>> If a person still identifies with his ego, then his actions/emotions will 
>>>>change 
>>>>
>>>> in accordance with the situations and circumastances around him. 
>>>> 'Personality' 
>>>
>>>> is nothing but a consensual label to these emotions as seen by people in 
>>>> the 
>
>>>> subjects social group. To dis-identify from the self is to live in the 
>>>> changeless Self.
>>>> 
>>>> Mike
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: ED <seacrofter001@...>
>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>> Sent: Sun, 27 February, 2011 22:41:38
>>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Change
>>>> 
>>>>   
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Mike and All,
>>>> Excluding physical changes, it is hard to apprehend whether, in general, 
>>>> humans change or not. The most appropriate answer I can think of is: "Yes 
>>>> and 
>>>
>>>> no."
>>>> For instance, through psychodrama, cognitive therapy, behavioral therapy, 
>>>> exposure to the Dharma, participation in 'human potential' workshops, or 
>>>> something else, his attitudes and behaviors have been considerably 
>>>> modified for 
>>>>
>>>> the better (or worse) as seen by those who know him - but his basic 
>>>> personality 
>>>>
>>>> has remained unchanged.
>>>> --ED
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Hi All,
>>>> > 
>>>> > Finally back in Japan after over 2 months in India! Ok, 'change'... Yes, 
>>>> > we 
>>>>all 
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > change every second of every minute of every day. What is important is 
>>>> > to 
>>>>find 
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> > out what doesn't change.
>>>> > 
>>>> > Mike
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> V asked:
>>>> Sorry I haven't been around in awhile....I've been reading the posts in 
>>>> the 

>>>> > group, but I myself haven't posted in many months. I do have a question, 
>>>> > however.
>>>> > Can people change? And by change, I mean can people change in a very 
>>>> >fundamental 
>>>> >
>>>> > manner? If so, how is it done?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>> 
> 



      

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