On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 17:06:41 -0000, Khazeh Fananapazir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43028.html > > In the above missive > http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43028.html > > my dear Gilberto writes: > **** In Islam, especially among Sufis if you think about concepts like the > Perfect Man or the > Qut.b, in a certain sense Muslims might even recognize new > Manifestations. The only question is whether the Shari'ah has been > abrogated or not.****
Dear Khazeh, > The Abrogation of the Shari'ah is really within the Will [Mashiyyat] > of the Supreme Ordainer, exalted be His Names and Attributes. > But assuming this is true, how do you distinguish between someone who is validly changing the law (if such a thing is possible) and someone who is illegitimately doing so? Gilberto: I understand that this is your opinion. All I'm trying to say with the above and related comments is that even within the "constraints" of orthodox traditional Islam, there are concepts which are inclusive enough to allow for certain Bahai claims in interesting ways (although most likely not all of them). According to comments made by Susan in a different context, the concept of Manifestation corresponds somewhat to the concept of Perfect Man. And I would say that although Islam would say there aren't new prophets after Muhammad, it is possible for there to be "Perfect Men" after the Muhammad. So if this is what "Manifestation" means then Muslims can look for past, present or future Manifestations among the awliya (saints) of the community of Muhammad. > But there are clues/allusions/ intimations in the Holy Qur'an that this will > be the case. Thus: > **** > 010.049 > YUSUFALI: Say: "I have no power over any harm or profit to myself except as > God willeth. TO EVERY PEOPLE IS A TERM APPOINTED: when their term is > reached, not an hour can they cause delay, nor (an hour) can they advance > (it in anticipation)." Gilberto: But how does that suggest abrogating the laws? > In relation to Shari'ah like everything else the Hand of God is unchained. > 5:64 > "God's hand is tied up." > God's hand is fettered > The hand of God is tied up!" > Sura 5 condemns any attitude which would say the Hand of God would be tied > up/fettered/ or chained Gilberto: I've heard this accusation alot from Bahais but I don't believe it is valid. I think there is a very big and clear distinction between saying that God can't do something and that God didn't do something. It is totally consistent to say that God *can* send new manifestations to abrogate all current laws and replace them with something new, but then at the same time say that he hasn't or that he won't. > Also this great reference is really worth thinking about > > From the BOOK BURHAAN > > Burhaan, (=al-Sayyid Hashim al-Bahrani, Kitab al-burhan fi tafsir al-Qur'an. > 4 vols. Tehran, 1375/1955). > > It is a Book of Tafsir in 4 Volume. The Compiler finished compiling it and > passed away in 1107 A.H. [153 years before the Dawn of the 12th Imam as the > Holy Personage of the Primal Point. > > The Imam Ja'far as. S.aadiq [the 6th Imam] was asked : What is the meaning > of the Holy Qur'an Verse in Sura Kahf [the Cave] > > Sura 18:109. Qul law kana albah.ru midadan likalimati rabbee lanafida > albahru qabla an tanfada kalimatu rabbee walaw ji/na bimithlihi madadan > > Sura 18:109 > > YUSUFALI: Say: "If the ocean were ink (wherewith to write out) the words of > my Lord, sooner would the ocean be exhausted than would the words of my > Lord, even if we added another ocean like it, for its aid." > The Imam was asked: What is the meaning of this verse: > > The Infallible Imam replied: > > Burhan, (=al-Sayyid Hashim al-Bahrani, Kitab al-burhan fi tafsir al-Qur'an. > 4 vols. Tehran, 1375/1955). > > Page 496 [akhbaraka anna Kalam Allah laysa lahuu aakhirun wa laa ghaayata wa > laa yanqat.i'u abadan] In other words ***GOD HERE INFORMS THEE THAT THE WORD > OF GOD HAS NO END, NO TERMINATION, AND IT SHALL NEVER CEASE AT ALL.*** > > This servant suggests this is a most precious find in such a wonderful Book > from such a Holy Imam. > Someone has pointed that passage out to me before. Here was my answer. > Page 496 [akhbaraka anna Kalam Allah laysa lahuu aakhirun wa laa > ghaayata wa laa yanqat.i u abadan] In other words ***God here informs > thee that the Word of God has no end, no termination, and It shall > never cease at all.*** The other thing I wanted to add to this is that just as Bahais argue that "seal of the prophets" means something different from "last prophet" that "the word of God has no end" can also mean something different from "prophets will keep coming over and over like the Bahais say". Some reasonable possibilities to consider would be: 1. "the word of god" could specifically refer to the Quran and so it could mean that the Quran's validity and last forever and never be abrogated by another. 2. At least for sunni theologians the Quran, since it is connected to God's attribute of speech, is actually eternal and uncreated. 3. The Quran could be endless in terms of its meanings. The other day I was reading a quote attributed to Imam Ali where he said that if he wanted to he could load up 70 camels with written commentary about al-Fatihah (the first chapter of the Quran which consists of only 7 verses). And there are numerous similar statements made about the meanings of passages of the Quran. If only 7 verses can have that much meaning contained in them, it does not make sense to think that it's interpretations have been exhausted and that the book is insufficient for modern times and that we should move on to some other text. 4. In both the Quran, the Bible, and in the writings of other religions, God creates with the power of his words. God *says* "Let there Be light" or God *says* "Be" and it is. (Kun fa ya kun). So if God's words don't end one way to read that is to say that God doesn't stop acting in the world, doesn't stop creating. And in fact, it is a mainstream theological claim the the physical universe doesn't have any staying power of its own and that moment to moment to moment, God is constantly recreating everything over and over again Peace Gilberto "My people are hydroponic" __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
