Dear Khazeh, I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to get across. I realize that many prophets and messengers suffered, and were persecuted and underwent many difficulties. All I'm saying is that suffering in doesn't prove that one is a prophet or messenger.
Peace Gilberto On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 23:30:23 -0000, Khazeh Fananapazir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > My dear Gilberto > > > > Dear Khazeh, > > > Everything you wrote is received by my mind and heart with affection and > > love apart from your comment below re Baha'u'llah and not seeing the > green. > > I swear by God [God] this last point is not fair were you to have read and > > seen what I have seen. > > I didn't mean to be unfair. I was just responding to what you literally > wrote. > > > At least I could say in all honesty that I have read the Writings of the > > Awliyaa and keep an eye on the suffering of my fellow human beings but > that > > remark re Haz.rate Baha'u'llah is far from ins.aaf [equity] and 'adl.[ > > fairness] > > > > > > > I love your letters > > Thank you. > > > > > That is why this servant responds to this last point with candour and > truth > > [h.aqeeqat] > > Thank you. I actually like it better when I feel you are being candid. > I you don't like something, feel free to say you don't like it. > > Khazeh: > > > Look at the Writings Look at the Pen of Baha'u'llah. Look at His > > > incarceration the fact the He was prevented from beholding greenery and > > > verdure for nine years. Look at the transforming influence of His Son on > > > someone like Martha root or May Maxwell or Thomas Breakwell... > > Gilberto: > > But even today, there are good Muslims who are put in prison and made > > to go through worse suffering and worse humiliation than not seeing > > gardens for a couple of years. Even today there are people whose lives > > are being transformed. > > > > Peace > > > > Gilberto > > For your kind information were you to peruse it for some few minutes > > > > ***** "The cruelties inflicted by My oppressors," He Himself in His > anguish > > has cried out, "have bowed Me down, and turned My hair white. Shouldst > thou > > present thyself before My throne, thou wouldst fail to recognize the > Ancient > > Beauty, for the freshness of His countenance is altered and its brightness > > hath faded, by reason of the oppression of the infidels. > > Gilberto: > I'm not saying Baháu'lláh didn't suffer. What I'm saying that at least > in physical terms, there are clearly also decent people in the world > who have also suffered and been victims of oppression. That doesn't > mean that everything they believe is true. That's all I'm saying. > > > ***You are very welcome. And you are being way too exaggerated in your > complements. It really isn't necessary. I would actually feel more > comfortable without such comments. I trust you have good intentions and are > sincerely trying to be warm and friendly. > > > Gilberto*** > > Yes I am sincerely trying to be warm and friendly AND COURTEOUS [with > respect to mentioning Sacred Personages [the Maz.aahir al Ilaahiyyah] [the > Loci of Divine Manifestation] > > Dear Brother Gilberto > > I am touched also by your candour and immediate reply. > Thank you. > There are so many references in the holy Qur'an to the Sufferings of the > Prophet Muhammad and the Bahá'ís point this out to those who do not > recognize His station > > Baha'u'llah refers to the Prophet's Constancy and Tribulations in great > detail. > The Prophet [God] reminds the People that Moses suffered too... > 061.005 > YUSUFALI: And remember, Moses said to his people: "O my people! why do ye > vex and insult me, though ye know that I am the messenger of God (sent) to > you?" Then when they went wrong, God let their hearts go wrong. For God > guides not those who are rebellious transgressors. > PICKTHAL: And (remember) when Moses said unto his people: O my people! Why > persecute ye me, when ye well know that I am God's messenger unto you? So > when they went astray God sent their hearts astray. And God guideth not the > evil-living folk. > SHAKIR: And when Musa said to his people: O my people! why do you give me > trouble? And you know indeed that I am God's messenger to you; but when they > turned aside, God made their hearts turn aside, and God does not guide the > transgressing people. > ALSO > 009.061 > YUSUFALI: Among them are men who molest the Prophet and say, "He is (all) > ear." Say, "He listens to what is best for you: he believes in God, has > faith in the Believers, and is a Mercy to those of you who believe." But > those who molest the Messenger will have a grievous penalty. > PICKTHAL: And of them are those who vex the Prophet and say: He is only a > hearer. Say: A hearer of good for you, who believeth in God and is true to > the believers, and a mercy for such of you as believe. Those who vex the > messenger of God, for them there is a painful doom. > SHAKIR: And there are some of them who molest the Prophet and say: He is one > who believes every thing that he hears; say: A hearer of good for you (who) > believes in God and believes the faithful and a mercy for those of you who > believe; and (as for) those who molest the Messenger of God, they shall have > a painful punishment. > > Baha'u'llah writes: > ****** For this reason did Muhammad cry out: "No Prophet of God hath > suffered such harm as I have suffered." And in the Qur'an are recorded all > the calumnies and reproaches uttered against Him, as well as all the > afflictions which He suffered. Refer ye thereunto, that haply ye may be > informed of that which hath befallen His Revelation. So grievous was His > plight, that for a time all ceased to hold intercourse with Him and His > companions. Whoever associated with Him fell a victim to the relentless > cruelty of His enemies. > (Baha'u'llah: The Kitab-i-Iqan, Page: 109)***** > > And Jesus Christ suffered willingly > ***Mt 26:64 > Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter > shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming > in the clouds of heaven. > Mt 26:65 > Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; > what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his > blasphemy. > Mt 26:66 > What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death. > Mt 26:67 > THEN DID THEY SPIT IN HIS FACE, AND BUFFETED HIM; AND OTHERS SMOTE HIM WITH > THE PALMS OF THEIR HANDS, > Mt 26:68 > Saying, Prophesy unto us, thou Christ, Who is he that smote thee? > > And the Martyrdom of the Imam Husayn > http://al-islam.org/al-serat/Excellences-Ayoub.htm > > The Excellences of the Imam Husayn > in Sunni Hadith Tradition > M. Ayoub > University of Toronto > Al-Serat, Vol XII (1986) > > And the Sufferings of the Bab are so numerous volumes would be needed. > And Baha'u'llah > > ... Praise be to Thee, O Lord My God, for the wondrous revelations of Thy > inscrutable decree and the manifold woes and trials Thou hast destined for > Myself. At one time Thou didst deliver Me [as Abraham] into the hands of > Nimrod; at another [as Moses]Thou hast allowed Pharaoh's rod to persecute > Me. Thou, alone, canst estimate, through Thine all-encompassing knowledge > and the operation of Thy Will, the incalculable afflictions I have suffered > at their hands. Again Thou didst cast Me into the prison-cell of the > ungodly [as Joseph], for no reason except that I was moved to whisper into > the ears of the well-favoured denizens of Thy Kingdom an intimation of the > vision with which Thou hadst, through Thy knowledge, inspired Me, and > revealed to Me its meaning through the potency of Thy might. And again Thou > didst decree that I [as John the Baptist] be beheaded by the sword of the > infidel. Again I [as Jesus Christ] was crucified for having unveiled to > men's eyes the hidden gems of Thy glorious unity, for having revealed to > them the wondrous signs of Thy sovereign and everlasting power. How bitter > the humiliations heaped upon Me [as the Imam Husayn], in a subsequent age, > on the plain of Karbila! How lonely did I feel amidst Thy people! To what a > state of helplessness I was reduced in that land! Unsatisfied with such > indignities, My persecutors decapitated Me [Husayn], and, carrying aloft My > head from land to land paraded it before the gaze of the unbelieving > multitude, and deposited it on the seats of the perverse and faithless [in > Damascus in front of the throne of the Caliph Yazid ibn Mu'awiyah]. In a > later age, I [as the Bab] was suspended, and My breast was made a target to > the darts of the malicious cruelty of My foes. My limbs were riddled with > bullets, and My body was torn asunder. Finally, behold how, in this Day, My > [Baha'u'llah] treacherous enemies have leagued themselves against Me > [Baha'u'llah], and are continually plotting to instill the venom of hate and > malice into the souls of Thy servants. With all their might they are > scheming to accomplish their purpose.... Grievous as is My plight, O God, > My Well-Beloved, I render thanks unto Thee, and My Spirit is grateful for > whatsoever hath befallen me in the path of Thy good-pleasure. I am well > pleased with that which Thou didst ordain for Me, and welcome, however > calamitous, the pains and sorrows I am made to suffer. > (Baha'u'llah: Gleanings, Pages: 88-90) > > > __________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st > News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > -- "My people are hydroponic" __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
