>because African-Americans have always borrowed from >the white European tradition,
Borrowed ? say What ? Kind of comment can just come from a perfect imbecile who is a waste of human flesh, and his only use on this earth is to take up space, God knows why, thank you very much for your brilliant comments, I much appreciated meantime let me tell you that: The music was a product of the existing environment of the time in which the musicians who created it lived.. social and political striking periods of black people in America, have always been accompanied with a new musical genre, as an example Period of Soul is roughly defined as 1955 - 1970. It very much parallels the Civil Rights movement. - African roots music 1619! brought to us Negro spirituals 1825-1850 - Negro spiritual "antique Gospel" Music brought to us Gospel music: 1890 then Rhythm and Blues as BLUES: early 1900s and then Jazz: 1920 - Gospel and R&B brought to us Soul - Jazz brought to us Funk I wonder how you can be daily, next, go alongside to people of which you do not even know the life, the existence, the history ...the roots! Take some teach on my web at http://www.guerrillafunk.com/thoughts/doc1788.html And let me quote myself from an email that I sent to this same list on March 6th 2002! "Yeah, it is...but a lot of things used to be "black people" music too. Although jazz was pioneered by black artists...who is the most well known "jazz" musician today? Kenny G? (What happened to Coltrane and Miles Davis?) Although blues music was pioneered by black artists...who is the most well known blues musician today? Stevie Ray Vaughn? (What happened to Muddy Waters, Albert King and Robert Johnson? Even Robert Cray?) And although rock was pioneered by black artists...who is the most well loved and respected rock group in the world? The Beatles? (What happened to Little Richard , Chuck Berry, and Bo Diddley?) Apathy. People didn't care, they didn't pay attention to what was going on, they didn't take a stand...they supported what was "safe", "common", "predictable", "expected"...just like Living Colour's record company did with the cover of their first album...they didn't and dont' challenge the "presumed wisdom" of the day...and so much of this music (Black Music?) has died. They largely did this because, they were comfortable and complacent in the cultural resonance they were receiving from MI at the time - and the fact that the music industry was successful in keeping them pacified in this way. Same game today? They were content with their "Bread and Circuses"... It's hard to say. .." |-----Original Message----- |From: David Powers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] |Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 5:31 PM |To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; David Powers |Cc: 313@hyperreal.org |Subject: RE: (313) Soul Music (was some nonsense spw was going on about) | | |Great post. I may have been misinformed, I was thinking about it |more in terms of the classifying of music by the record labels |than the meaning of the music for the people who made it. Now I'm |trying to remember which label it was that the record industry |used, maybe it was R&B? | |And actually, I have to admit that the concept of "soul" you are |speaking about does not require any kind of metaphysics and could |be a very useful Idea. I come from a very conservative white |Christian background where "soul" is used as an extremely |repressive idea and justifies oppresion rather than encouraging |people to seek for a better life here on earth. So what is really |interesting is that African-Americans took a notion from their |oppresors and transformed it, took it down a life of flight so |that it became a liberating concept. | |And if you think about it in terms of music, this is really |interesting because African-Americans have always borrowed from |the white European tradition, but at the same time have often been |successful at liberating these elements from their hierarchical |origins and set them in motion, into a continuous variation where |the elements that are ripped from their foundation in an oppresive |hierarchical Culture now enter into free play and communicate with |all the other elements of music. A continuous line of variation |rather than a strict code of meaning. (On the other hand there is |always a Winton Marsalis at the end of the line trying to block |the development, saying "our music is a CLASSICAL music", hip hop, |techno and free jazz, well THAT doesn't swing, that's not real |music, that's not our identity, we need to find our place as an |extension of Western Culture.) | |313 people, you might think I'm off topic but really I'm talking |about things like jazz chords, instrumental virtuosity, 808, 909, |303, DIY use of technology, sampler; all the elements of Detroit |techno can be understood very well in this context. | |dave | | |---------- Original Message ------------- |Subject: RE: (313) Soul Music (was some nonsense spw was going on about) |Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:41:17 +0200 |From: "Sylvia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> |To: "David Powers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | | | ||>On the other hand, "Soul Music" as a genre was a just a euphimism for ||"black music", and doesn't have anything >to do with "soul" as a spiritual ||or metaphysical concept. | |Euphemism ???? | |'blues' is without hope and that its singers accept their |conditions without |complaint or expectation of anything better. Soul borrowed an |expectation of |a better world from gospel, but translate it into a worldly context as |opposed to a religious one. Gospel gives soul its optimism because it |believes in a better world in heaven, soul starts looking for that better |world on earth. | |Soul Music is the product of ever evolving social conditions and a |diversity |of musical influences |Soul Music is about the problems faced by groups of people, not of |individuals |Soul Music is about poverty and day to day drudgery |Soul Music is the belief that circumstances can improve |Soul Music is about realism, it is not blinkered by romantic ideals |The 'Moan' is a defining characteristic of Soul Music |Soul Music is tolerant |Soul Music is..... | |Euphemism, psssst, dubya! but yes understanding Soul Music can just escape |from a brain with 2 neurons without connector. | | | ||-----Original Message----- ||From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ||[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ||Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:58 AM ||To: David Powers ||Cc: 313@hyperreal.org; spw ||Subject: RE: (313) Soul Music (was some nonsense spw was going on about) || || || ||>On the other hand, "Soul Music" as a genre was a just a euphimism for ||"black music", and doesn't have anything >to do with "soul" as a spiritual ||or metaphysical concept. || ||The hell it doesn't have a spiritual concept! Where the hell do you think ||Soul music came from? || ||Listen to Ray Charles man, and then tell me that there isn't a spiritual ||side to Soul music - one of the biggest influences on Soul music was the ||church. All those singers - All Green, Mavis Staple, Aretha Franklin, and ||so many more got their start in the church. That's not to say that Soul = ||Gospel but there in a huge influence of Gospel on Soul. Soul music is the ||merging of the spiritual with the physical - that's why it's so great to ||dance to... it satisfies the body, mind and "soul". ||(That's why I love the term "High Tech Soul" = Techno or "Techno Soul") || ||MEK || || || | | | |
