Ahhh. The silence caused by reason and knowledge is like music itself! Cheers Michael!
Ken >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 8:43 PM >To: 313@hyperreal.org >Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: (313) Soul Music (was some nonsense spw was going on about) > > > > >>"Borrowed ? say What ? Kind of comment can just come from a perfect >imbecile >who is a waste of human flesh, and his only use on this earth is to take up >space, God knows why, thank you very much for your brilliant comments," > >Whoa, Sylvia, chill the f*ck out for a second. I questioned David too but >he did have some stuff to back up what he was saying (Dave I hope you don't >mind me posting this and I apologize for including sections of a private >post but I think in this case it's necessary): > >>>1. Adaption of western instruments, use of these instruments in >non-traditional ways. > >Although it's not cut and dry - there are some instruments that African's >picked up after being taken to the Americas (largely brass marching band >instruments and piano). > >>>2. Obvious examples, the black church's use of white gospel music; Duke >Ellington influenced by Ravel and Debussy; Art Tatum's reworking of the >Western classical virtuosic pianistic tradition; Charlie Parker playing >along with Stravinsky records; the uses jazz musicians have made of a >classical text called Slominsky's Thesaurus of Scales... > >This is true. *Some* African-American jazz artists were and are influenced >by European classical forms. > >>>3. All jazz harmony is a mutant, revised version of Western classical >harmony. > >Well, this isn't actually true - "blue" notes/harmonies are African in >origin and never existed in Western scales > >>>/dave > >I don't think he is saying that African-American's have borrowed >*everything* from European traditions. I think what he is trying to say is >that there was a bit of back and forth between both cultures. However, you >are right, Anglo culture has taken much more without giving credit (and >also watering it down to the point of *blah*) and also trying to keep black >artists underfunded, underrepresented, and corralled into a stereotype (ie. >gangsta rap). > >Here's some other info that does defend what Dave was saying: > > > Many Jazz writers have pointed out that the non-Jazz elements from which > Jazz was formed, the Blues, Ragtime, Brass Band Music, Hymns and > Spirituals, Minstrel music and work songs were ubiquitous in the United > States and known in dozens of cities. Why then, they reason, should New > Orleans be singled out as the sole birthplace of Jazz? These writers are > overlooking one important factor that existed only in New Orleans, > namely, the black Creole subculture. > > The Creoles were free, French and Spanish speaking Blacks, originally > from the West Indies, who lived first under Spanish then French rule in > the Louisiana Territory. They became Americans as a result of the > Louisiana Purchase of 1803 and Louisiana statehood in 1812. The Creoles > rose to the highest levels of New Orleans society during the 19th > century. They lived in the French section of the city east of Canal > Street and became prominent in the economic and cultural life of the > section. > > The Creole musicians, many of whom were Conservatory trained in Paris, > played at the Opera House and in chamber ensembles. Some led the best > society bands in New Orleans. They prided themselves on their formal > knowledge of European music, precise technique and soft delicate tone > and had all of the social and cultural values that characterize the > upper class. In sharp contrast were the people of the American part of > New Orleans, who lived west of Canal Street. They were newly freed > blacks who were poor, uneducated, and totally lacking in cultural and > economic advantages. The musicians of the American section, also called > the Back o' town section, were schooled in the blues, Gospel music, and > work songs that they sang or played mostly by ear. Memorization and > improvisation characterized the west side bands; sight reading and > correct performance were characteristic of Creole bands. > > Then in 1894 an odious racial segregation law was enacted in New Orleans > which forced the refined Creoles to live on the other side of Canal > Street. Though this was a cultural catastrophe for the Creoles, they > soon gained musical leadership of the American section . It was the > musical sparks that flew on the clashing of these very different > cultures in the ensuing decade that ignited the flames of Jazz. These > happenings are discussed in the numerous recordings of Jelly Roll Morton > made in 1938 at the Library of Congress in which he is interviewed by > folk music expert Alan Lomax. They are the best documents we have of the > process that transformed the many non-Jazz musical elements into Jazz. > Jelly Roll, a Creole named Ferdinand LaMenthe at birth, was one of the > big movers in the early development of Jazz. He explains in great detail > how a Jazz piece like Tiger Rag evolved out of European dance forms like > the French quadrille, the waltz, the mazurka and the polka. He also > cites the importance of Spanish rhythms in early Jazz, an effect he > calls the "Spanish Tinge". > > Jelly Roll Morton claimed to be the inventor of Jazz in 1902, an absurd > claim to be sure. What is even more absurd is that there is ample > evidence to support his claim ! There is no doubt that Morton had > isolated a music not covered by the blues or ragtime and that he applied > a swinging syncopation to a variety of music, including ragtime, opera, > and French and Spanish songs and dances. He also may have introduced the > 2-bar break (the precursor to extended solos), scat singing and other > improvisational ideas. Basically, the conversion of ragtime to Jazz was > quite simple, involving application of a strong underlying 4/4 beat to > 2/4 ragtime. But all great ideas are simple once understood. With this > device, any music from opera to the blues could be "played hot" as it > was described in those days. > > The popularly accepted theory that Jazz stemmed from a simple > combination of African rhythms and European harmony is in need of a > little revision. Both African and European rhythms were employed. > African music supplied the strong underlying beat (absent in most > European music), the use of polyrhythms, and the idea of playing the > melody separate from or above the beat. European music provided formal > dance rhythms. Combined, these rhythms give Jazz its' characteristic > swing. Likewise, the harmonies and musical ideas of both continents are > present, the blue notes derived from the pentatonic scale, "call and > response" and unconventional instrumental timbres of African music > together with "conventional" harmonies and, most important, the formal > structure of European music. The multiplicity of ethnic, cultural and > musical conditions needed to spawn Jazz was thus unique to the United > States, and specifically to New Orleans. The necessary philosophical > impetus for Jazz, i.e. , democracy and freedom of individual expression > supported by group interaction, are also American institutions. > > http://www.redhotjazz.com/originsarticle.html > > > > >Here's another article that touches on the mix of European and >African-American >http://www.nps.gov/neor/Jazz%20History_origins_pre1895.htm > >So, please cool it with the personal insults - it's really >counter-productive and stupid. > >take care >MEK > > >
