Its discussions like this that really makes me hate techno and everyone that goes with it.
|-----Original Message----- |From: Sylvia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] |Sent: 18 June 2003 23:52 |To: David Powers |Cc: 313@hyperreal.org |Subject: RE: (313) Soul Music (was some nonsense spw was going |on about) | | |>because African-Americans have always borrowed from |>the white European tradition, | |Borrowed ? say What ? Kind of comment can just come from a |perfect imbecile who is a waste of human flesh, and his only |use on this earth is to take up space, God knows why, thank |you very much for your brilliant comments, I much appreciated |meantime let me tell you that: | |The music was a product of the existing environment of the |time in which the musicians who created it lived.. social and |political striking periods of black people in America, have |always been accompanied with a new musical genre, as an |example Period of Soul is roughly defined as 1955 - 1970. It |very much parallels the Civil Rights movement. | |- African roots music 1619! brought to us Negro spirituals 1825-1850 |- Negro spiritual "antique Gospel" Music brought to us Gospel |music: 1890 then Rhythm and Blues as BLUES: early 1900s and |then Jazz: 1920 |- Gospel and R&B brought to us Soul |- Jazz brought to us Funk | |I wonder how you can be daily, next, go alongside to people of |which you do not even know the life, the existence, the |history ...the roots! | |Take some teach on my web at |http://www.guerrillafunk.com/thoughts/doc1788.html | |And let me quote myself from an email that I sent to this same |list on March 6th 2002! | |"Yeah, it is...but a lot of things used to be "black people" |music too. Although jazz was pioneered by black artists...who |is the most well known "jazz" musician today? Kenny G? (What |happened to Coltrane and Miles Davis?) Although blues music |was pioneered by black artists...who is the most well known |blues musician today? Stevie Ray Vaughn? (What happened to |Muddy Waters, Albert King and Robert Johnson? Even Robert |Cray?) |And although rock was pioneered by black artists...who is the |most well loved and respected rock group in the world? The |Beatles? (What happened to Little Richard , Chuck Berry, and |Bo Diddley?) Apathy. People didn't care, they didn't pay |attention to what was going on, they didn't take a |stand...they supported what was "safe", "common", |"predictable", "expected"...just like Living Colour's record |company did with the cover of their first album...they didn't |and dont' challenge the "presumed wisdom" of the day...and so |much of this music (Black Music?) has died. They largely did |this because, they were comfortable and complacent in the |cultural resonance they were receiving from MI at the time - |and the fact that the music industry was successful in keeping |them pacified in this way. Same game today? They were content |with their "Bread and Circuses"... It's hard to say. .." | | ||-----Original Message----- ||From: David Powers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ||Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 5:31 PM ||To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; David Powers ||Cc: 313@hyperreal.org ||Subject: RE: (313) Soul Music (was some nonsense spw was going on ||about) || || ||Great post. I may have been misinformed, I was thinking |about it more ||in terms of the classifying of music by the record labels than the ||meaning of the music for the people who made it. Now I'm trying to ||remember which label it was that the record industry used, |maybe it was ||R&B? || ||And actually, I have to admit that the concept of "soul" you are ||speaking about does not require any kind of metaphysics and |could be a ||very useful Idea. I come from a very conservative white Christian ||background where "soul" is used as an extremely repressive idea and ||justifies oppresion rather than encouraging people to seek |for a better ||life here on earth. So what is really interesting is that ||African-Americans took a notion from their oppresors and transformed ||it, took it down a life of flight so that it became a liberating ||concept. || ||And if you think about it in terms of music, this is really |interesting ||because African-Americans have always borrowed from the white |European ||tradition, but at the same time have often been successful at ||liberating these elements from their hierarchical origins and |set them ||in motion, into a continuous variation where the elements that are ||ripped from their foundation in an oppresive hierarchical Culture now ||enter into free play and communicate with all the other elements of ||music. A continuous line of variation rather than a strict code of ||meaning. (On the other hand there is always a Winton Marsalis at the ||end of the line trying to block the development, saying "our |music is a ||CLASSICAL music", hip hop, techno and free jazz, well THAT doesn't ||swing, that's not real music, that's not our identity, we |need to find ||our place as an extension of Western Culture.) || ||313 people, you might think I'm off topic but really I'm |talking about ||things like jazz chords, instrumental virtuosity, 808, 909, 303, DIY ||use of technology, sampler; all the elements of Detroit techno can be ||understood very well in this context. || ||dave || || ||---------- Original Message ------------- ||Subject: RE: (313) Soul Music (was some nonsense spw was going on ||about) ||Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:41:17 +0200 ||From: "Sylvia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ||To: "David Powers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> || || || |||>On the other hand, "Soul Music" as a genre was a just a |euphimism for |||"black music", and doesn't have anything >to do with "soul" as a |||spiritual or metaphysical concept. || ||Euphemism ???? || ||'blues' is without hope and that its singers accept their conditions ||without complaint or expectation of anything better. Soul borrowed an ||expectation of ||a better world from gospel, but translate it into a worldly context as ||opposed to a religious one. Gospel gives soul its optimism because it ||believes in a better world in heaven, soul starts looking for |that better ||world on earth. || ||Soul Music is the product of ever evolving social conditions and a ||diversity of musical influences ||Soul Music is about the problems faced by groups of people, not of ||individuals ||Soul Music is about poverty and day to day drudgery ||Soul Music is the belief that circumstances can improve ||Soul Music is about realism, it is not blinkered by romantic ideals ||The 'Moan' is a defining characteristic of Soul Music ||Soul Music is tolerant ||Soul Music is..... || ||Euphemism, psssst, dubya! but yes understanding Soul Music can just ||escape from a brain with 2 neurons without connector. || || || |||-----Original Message----- |||From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |||[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] |||Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:58 AM |||To: David Powers |||Cc: 313@hyperreal.org; spw |||Subject: RE: (313) Soul Music (was some nonsense spw was going on |||about) ||| ||| ||| |||>On the other hand, "Soul Music" as a genre was a just a |euphimism for |||"black music", and doesn't have anything >to do with "soul" as a |||spiritual or metaphysical concept. ||| |||The hell it doesn't have a spiritual concept! Where the hell do you |||think Soul music came from? ||| |||Listen to Ray Charles man, and then tell me that there isn't a |||spiritual side to Soul music - one of the biggest influences on Soul |||music was the church. All those singers - All Green, Mavis Staple, |||Aretha Franklin, and so many more got their start in the church. |||That's not to say that Soul = Gospel but there in a huge |influence of |||Gospel on Soul. Soul music is the merging of the spiritual with the |||physical - that's why it's so great to dance to... it satisfies the |||body, mind and "soul". (That's why I love the term "High |Tech Soul" = |||Techno or "Techno Soul") ||| |||MEK ||| ||| ||| || || || || |
