I can wholly understand JTs attitude to this. At the day these labels are making a business decision to release or rerelease music and sell it at an inflated cost because they can. They know the mentality of the record collector, hell I used to have it myself! Especially coming from the point of view of someone struggling to make a label successful themselves, its kinda frustrating. I guess I have slightly less of a problem with Planet E than I do the Peacefrog Privte Pressings, at least Carl Craig is selling this record based on it being an established great record, but the Private Pressings arent even that great, certainly not to the point of them ever really becoming clasics in thier own right IMO, they certainly dont have the judos of already being a classic to justify the price tag. They are being sold and marketed in a way that directly plugs into the record collectors mentality. Theres loads of better records coming out that are better and much better value for money from a pure musical point of view that are struggling to even sell 500 copies, so it kinda smacks of arrogance from Peacefrog to release 500 and then use the numbers to justify the price. Ive seen plenty of posts here from people that have bought these and theres always the feeling that they know they are getting ripped off, but cant help themselves, which is fine I guess, at the end of the day in 20 years time nobodys gonna think they were ripped off all that time ago, youre just gonna be glad you bought it when you did. My problem is where does this end? What if Peacefrog start banging out these Private Pressings every week, or Carl Craig does rerelease all the Retroactive stuff and charge $20 for it? How many good new records on struggling labels are gonna take a hit because people just cant afford to pick everything up?
----- Original Message ----- From: "J. T." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 2:42 AM Subject: RE: (313) Re: () SIX NINE represses? > ah well, good points... > i just dont care anymore or something i guess. or maybe i am too broke. if > it was normal price i'd buy it, but since it's way marked up, no way. > granted those of us selling records at normal wholesale price aren't making > squat. but it just seems a little odd when you have even more rare chit > getting repressed and sold at normal price, but oh this, this is special! it > does smell of some kinda techno elitism or something to me. and is > definitely taking advantage of collector mindset/fetishism, but if you're a > collector or horny for this record, what do you care i guess. i still think > you're being suckered, but if you're a willing sucker i guess you're not > really a sucker. it's kinda sickly funny that putting a high price on > something is actually a way to hype it up nowadays. pricing a repress as if > it immediately shares the rarity of the original is a bit of a marketing > trick, but if it works, hey. basic channel, clone, rephlex, environ, etc etc > you guys missed out on the $$...doh! > of course i want to get ahold of good music (that i dont have to have my > computer on to listen to) and this makes me wish i could afford to be a > collector. with my reasoning and my budget, there's no way i can feel ok > buying this thing. it kinda bugs me but whatever. i'll look for it in the > used bins etc. they'll end up there sooner or later whether they pressed a > lot or a few anyways. there's plenty floating around now.. > anyways thanks for the pov dave, you forgot to insult my mentality or > appreciation for music tho... > > >Well JT, all I can say is I've wanted this record for YEARS, if I see it > >in Gramaphone I will probably pick it up even for $16-17. I bet that > >there are a lot of people like me, I don't think we are getting played > >or jacked. Note that I already have it on MP3, but I love vinyl and I > >think this is really a seminal Detroit techno record, something worth > >owning for the rest of my life. I'm not buying it just because it is > >rare. Sure, maybe they pressed too many copies and the prices will come > >down - but how can we know if that is the case? And why not let an > >artist make a little extra money off a great record, he couldn't have > >made THAT MUCH on the original to begin with. > > > >Remember, people can find the mp3 for free. The value of vinyl is that > >people like me enjoy owning it despite the availability of mp3s. Sure I > >look for good deals buying records, but I do collect music that I really > >like just because I love it, and I'm willing to pay for this. The vinyl > >market is NOT for everyone, it is elitist by its very nature. High > >pricing for limited pressings of classics does make sense, as long as > >they don't press so many that the price turns out to be unsustainable > >and they can't sell all the copies produced. > > > >~David > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: J. T. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 5:51 PM > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org > >Subject: RE: (313) Re: () SIX NINE represses? > > > > >so you dont like the record because its not good? i dont > > >understand. if you were actually a music lover, i think youd be > > >happy to finally get your hands on a good record that otherwise > > >you wouldnt pay crazy loot for. > > > >i'm not a music lover. i was just playing. music is for the birds tweet > >tweet > >who said i didnt like the record? i just dont like the price. i've got > >better things to spend my money on, like, new stuff thats priced > >normally. i > >dont even buy old records for high prices, i find them cheap or i dont > >have > >them. there is too much great music out there that can be found cheap. > > > > >stores arent smoking crack for the most part. they dont order > > >things they think they wont be able to sell. > > > >i'd be interested in hearing back from somebody in detroit whether those > > > >69's on the wall at recordtime sell or not. they didnt order many tho. > > > > >excellent argument. > > > >i respond to hot air with hot air > > > > >the repress is exactly identical to the original. how will they > > >determine which it is? carbon dating a sample from the vinyl? > > > >yes wiseass you have to carbon date the vinyl. or look at the > >runout/label/sleeve. something about it will be different. if its truly > >identical, than the high price is even more shady -- based on the rarity > >of > >the original, which it has suddenly become itself, but widely > >available.. > > > > >this is my point though. it would be bad if big name artists just > > >started selling their records for more because they are who they > > >are. putting a premium price on an established anthem is > > >altogether different. > > > >which is the "established anthem" on 4 jazz funk? my machines? anthem? i > > > >dont think thats quite the right word somehow..more like sought-after > >techno > >collector stuff...hence the pricetag...and is this not just because it's > > > >carl craig? elite techno stuff? all that old trax stuff was wayyyyyyyy > >bigger than this...and i think farley trumps craig as far as big > >names...and > >those represses were cheap.. > > > >anthems dont tend to have an inflated pricetag.... > > > >throw is 1000 times the anthem of anything on 4 jazz funk, but is priced > > > >normally. the price of the 69 is to take advantage of collectors. you > >can > >argue all you want, yes it's a great record to own, but you got played. > >of > >course it's no problem to you if it was worth (personally) what you paid > >for > >it. but in the larger context of the record business, it sucks and is a > >jack > >move..and its not normally how represses are handled. usually they are > >aimed > >at giving rare music a renewed availability and accessibility. the > >repress > >is cheap, the original stays valuable and rare and even more sought > >after...but the pricetage on this is jumping the gun. it's essentially > >calling a record "rare" even as it's hot off the presses and available > >everywhere, totally a marketing ploy. it's the record industry > >collapsing on > >itself, not looking for new listeners but to instead take existing > >customers > >(collectors especially) for all it can...while it can. because soon > >people > >will be aware that this record is not so hard to find anymore. there > >will be > >copies sitting in stores, the urgency will wear off. the collector > >demand > >will evaporate. it's allll a gaaame, and i do not like these games > > > > >ill bet you a ton of money on that. look at "shades of jae" by > > >moodymann. that record has been repressed, even as recently as 5 > > > >what its worth and what people will pay for it are seperate things > >sometimes. i've sold records which arent worth a pile of beans for a > >decent > >little chunk on eBay. the record collecting business is very similar to > >comic book collecting. price trends are extreme, and shortlived. what > >might > >be "worth" $50 this year, in five years could be worth $5. or you might > >just > >find it for $1 in some secondhand store somewhere. some people only look > >to > >eBay...italo is crazy on there too. dirt cheap if you actually look for > >it. > >like, give a wantlist to somebody you know in nyc or chicago... > > > > >im the sucker because i have a record i want? how does that make > > >sense? IMO youre a sucker if you pass up a chance to buy a great > > > >it doesnt make sense, but you asked not me. you're asking yourself > >questions > >that dont make sense, which really doesnt make sense. > > > >it didnt make sense to pay $17 for 4 jazz funk when we could (and did) > >spend > >less money on a couple fragile represses, an original copy of voice of > >q, > >and classic old dancemania chit. we got an entire dj set of classics for > > > >less than $17. we probably would have bought 4 jazz funk if it was > >priced > >normally. if we were eagerly after it, maybe we would have paid the $17. > >and > >be happy to have it. but it still doesnt justify the pricing. > >considering > >what we could spend our money on instead, it made a whole lot more sense > >to > >just hope to run into a cheaper copy some other time > > > > >record because of a $10 price increase. dont go out to eat one > > >night. dont buy a couple drinks next time youre at the club > > >watching deejays spin. $10 isnt $100, there are so many ways that > > >money can be spent that is much more worthless than getting a > > >great record. ill play this 12" way more than 17 times in my life. > > >even at $1 per play it would be well worth it. > > > >well i'm glad you value music so highly, i do too. that's not my point. > >i'm > >talking business not just musing about how great such n such music is. i > > > >have loads of music that i consider priceless, but thankfully it was > >priced > >normally so that i actually got ahold of it. > >have fun not eating not drinking and playing your overpriced record over > >and > >over > > > > >good mentality. music cant stay good if it sounds dated? thats > > >especially funny coming from you, considering the type of music > > >you like to make. > > > >"dated" means it hasnt held up over time. some older things sound old > >but > >fresh at the same time -- or not even old. some things dont. if you ever > > > >actually dig thru old records this becomes incredibly obvious > >immediately. > >there are retroactive records which dont sound so hot anymore, only > >collectors would drool over them for collecting sake. do you really not > >understand this or are you just taking an oppurtunity to insult me > >personally? i appreciate it. > >my entire life has been spent around the oldest records that exist and > >in > >the serious record collecting business. i dont have time to argue with a > > > >stubborn and disrespectful person who just wants to toss off insults and > > > >sarcastic know-it-all comments > > > > >$100 does suck, youre right. $17 OTOH doesnt at all. > > > >yes, it sucks too. great, you can afford it. doesnt mean it's right. the > > > >only recent repress i would pay that much for is glass domain, just > >because > >i have been after it for so so long. and i'd still be pissed off at the > >unreasonable pricing, you should be too. originals cost money because > >they > >are hard to find, brand new represses are only worth the vinyl they're > >pressed on! music is not priced according to its own greatness! we're in > >for > >a real mess if that's the new criteria. music becomes valuable when it > >is > >great AND rare. inflated record pricing is NOT GOOD, same as it is not > >good > >for cd's... > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with > >MSN > >Premium! > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/mlb&pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200439ave/ > >direct/01/ > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® > Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > >
