Great point! Doesn't dub predate hip hop though? It was low-tech on big soundsystems. The only factor it doesn't seem to inherit is the post-industrial attribute, but then again my knowledge of the roots of dub are few and far between. Though I'd love to read about it, any suggestions LKS?
Cheers todd ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lester Kenyatta Spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <313@hyperreal.org>; "Bill Benzon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:42 AM Subject: RE: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line > On Wed, 14 Nov 2001, Brendan Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > | -----Original Message----- > > | From: Lester Kenyatta Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > | Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 5:17 PM > > | > > | > Interesting point... I'd be tempted to say that techno was the first > > | > specifically post-industrial tribal music. Other genres of > > | music, like > > | > rock'n'roll or hip-hop, have always had tribal aspects to > > | them, but techno > > | > is specifically post-industrial. > > | > > | This is interesting as well....how are you defining "post-indutrial?" > > > > The dictionary definition is "a period in the development of an economy or > > nation in which the relative importance of manufacturing lessens and that of > > services, information, and research grows" - most Western nations are now in > > a post-industrial state and have been since the late 1970s. Although there > > have been new genres of music since then besides techno, techno's origins in > > Detroit - a city which became post-industrial a while before many others, > > what with the collapse in auto manufacturing there and the subsequent decay > > of the city - kind of mark it as a genre of music which ties very closely > > with post-industrialism. > > Hm. Although I don't think it is an accident that what we think of as > "techno" comes out of Detroit for the reasons you mentioned, I actually > think hip-hop might be the first post-industrial music...and that techno > is the first to actually REPRESENT itself as post-industrial. Do you see > the distinction? I was giving a lecture about "mass society" yesterday, > and it occurred to me that we can trace the development of music in a > similar fashion...rock and roll in particular. Rock and roll is a very > industrial music in that it calls into being a certain sense of scale > (large large concert halls, a loud loud sound which requires big big > speakers, etc.). It also calls into being a certain type of industry to > feed it. Ticketmaster to deal with the consumer aspect of concert > technology for example. > > (apologies for obvious oversimplification.) > > But hiphop is the first music to violate those forms...and it was produced > by some of the first casualties of the industrial era--"colored" (black > american, black carribbean, latino, some white) men and women who were > unable to get jobs in the plants during the seventies. It took a low-tech > approach with high tech tools and created a sound that was a pastiche of > bits and pieces of previous work. And in juxtaposition to the megaband, > all that was needed was "two turntables and a mic." Note how the scale > becomes more human...in pointed juxtaposition to the industrial trend. > > Now the themes are definitely NOT post-industrial...but I think the music > itself was as far as the social factors leading up to its creation. > > > Of course, it's easy to say things like that about techno as it is an > > ambiguous and amorphous genre of music - and it's just as easy to disprove > > statements like this for exactly the same reason. My perception of techno is > > that it's a post-industrial genre - and, hey, if we think of 'industrial' as > > the musical genre rather than the phase of economic development, that makes > > sense too! > > Perhaps even more sense. > > > peace > lks > > (i forwarded this to a friend of mine who recently wrote a book called > BEETHOVEN'S ANVIL which deals with music and culture broadly considered.) > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
