I frequently find JM's comments oblique & challenging: mind-tweaking, in fact. One thing about Mills: the music is never just an end in itself, but always a vehicle for "another voice" (to quote Derrida), a "step to enchantment" which holds opens endless further possibilities. Lawrence Kramer picks up on this ceaseless calling in a 1995 book called 'Classical Music & Postmodern Knowledge' (also check out his new one, 'Musical Meaning'):
"For me music has gradually become the labyrinth of another voice, threading those chambers of the ear that wind and unwind into every distance, that turn inside out to become the whorled spaces of the world, of other voices, another voice." That the voice remains untranslatable, that Mills constantly tries out "names for the unnameable" for this "trace of the Other," gives his own words--like his musical designs--their strange, haunting qualities. Collectively, they burn on as the cinders of an obsessive search for the future origins of what Derrida calls an "irreducible nonpresence," incessantly calling from "another now." Mills constructs the sonic structures (or machines/constructures) for listening into this still redeemable time to come. Wes On Wed, 14 Nov 2001, M. Todd Smith wrote: > Great point! Doesn't dub predate hip hop though? It was low-tech on big > soundsystems. The only factor it doesn't seem to inherit is the > post-industrial attribute, but then again my knowledge of the roots of dub > are few and far between. Though I'd love to read about it, any suggestions > LKS? > > Cheers > todd > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lester Kenyatta Spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <313@hyperreal.org>; "Bill Benzon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:42 AM > Subject: RE: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line > > > > On Wed, 14 Nov 2001, Brendan Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > | -----Original Message----- > > > | From: Lester Kenyatta Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > | Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 5:17 PM > > > | > > > | > Interesting point... I'd be tempted to say that techno was the first > > > | > specifically post-industrial tribal music. Other genres of > > > | music, like > > > | > rock'n'roll or hip-hop, have always had tribal aspects to > > > | them, but techno > > > | > is specifically post-industrial. > > > | > > > | This is interesting as well....how are you defining "post-indutrial?" > > > > > > The dictionary definition is "a period in the development of an economy > or > > > nation in which the relative importance of manufacturing lessens and > that of > > > services, information, and research grows" - most Western nations are > now in > > > a post-industrial state and have been since the late 1970s. Although > there > > > have been new genres of music since then besides techno, techno's > origins in > > > Detroit - a city which became post-industrial a while before many > others, > > > what with the collapse in auto manufacturing there and the subsequent > decay > > > of the city - kind of mark it as a genre of music which ties very > closely > > > with post-industrialism. > > > > Hm. Although I don't think it is an accident that what we think of as > > "techno" comes out of Detroit for the reasons you mentioned, I actually > > think hip-hop might be the first post-industrial music...and that techno > > is the first to actually REPRESENT itself as post-industrial. Do you see > > the distinction? I was giving a lecture about "mass society" yesterday, > > and it occurred to me that we can trace the development of music in a > > similar fashion...rock and roll in particular. Rock and roll is a very > > industrial music in that it calls into being a certain sense of scale > > (large large concert halls, a loud loud sound which requires big big > > speakers, etc.). It also calls into being a certain type of industry to > > feed it. Ticketmaster to deal with the consumer aspect of concert > > technology for example. > > > > (apologies for obvious oversimplification.) > > > > But hiphop is the first music to violate those forms...and it was produced > > by some of the first casualties of the industrial era--"colored" (black > > american, black carribbean, latino, some white) men and women who were > > unable to get jobs in the plants during the seventies. It took a low-tech > > approach with high tech tools and created a sound that was a pastiche of > > bits and pieces of previous work. And in juxtaposition to the megaband, > > all that was needed was "two turntables and a mic." Note how the scale > > becomes more human...in pointed juxtaposition to the industrial trend. > > > > Now the themes are definitely NOT post-industrial...but I think the music > > itself was as far as the social factors leading up to its creation. > > > > > Of course, it's easy to say things like that about techno as it is an > > > ambiguous and amorphous genre of music - and it's just as easy to > disprove > > > statements like this for exactly the same reason. My perception of > techno is > > > that it's a post-industrial genre - and, hey, if we think of > 'industrial' as > > > the musical genre rather than the phase of economic development, that > makes > > > sense too! > > > > Perhaps even more sense. > > > > > > peace > > lks > > > > (i forwarded this to a friend of mine who recently wrote a book called > > BEETHOVEN'S ANVIL which deals with music and culture broadly considered.) > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
