Just to add a couple random thoughts here...

1) Part of my concern is not knowing the cold failure modes.   If you
attempt to write to a card when it's cold do you destroy the card?   Or
does getting too cold by itself cause data loss.   If I knew for instance
that as long as I didn't write to the card below say -10F, I just would
read a temperature sensor near the card.

2) I hate heaters.  However, there's about 1W dissipated in the new
product, so there is some internal heating.

-forrest

On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Let me explain it this way:
>
> Because I'm worried about the reliability of the SD card, I'm not likely
> to prevent basic operation and general operation if it fails.  There's
> going to be sufficient memory otherwise for the device to run and operate
> correctly.
>
> The purpose of the additional memory is for various large data storage.
> An example would be if this hardware made it into a site monitor Base unit,
> being able to keep all of the firmware images for all of the expansion
> module types on the SD card.  The unit would then pull from there (much
> faster) to upgrade expansion modules in a fraction of the time.   Another
> example would be supporting email notifications for events - i.e. the
> temperature is too cold.   Without that functionality, the enhanced
> features would not be available.    More applicable to the current design,
> there's been some requests for on-device logging of enough data so that
> certain values would have historical graphs.  And so on.
>
> This thread is definitely giving me a lot of things to think about...
>
> -forrest
>
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:40 PM, Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>   I would agree with George’s numbers.  Some of our smaller enclosures
>> don’t have much thermal mass or internal heating.  With the crazy weather
>> extremes, we could conceivably get down to –25F inside the box for a day,
>> especially the ones we purposely put on the north side of a grain bin to
>> shield them from the summer sun.
>>
>> My question would be, what happens if it gets that cold?  Lose some
>> data?  Lose the firmware?  Permanently damage the device?  I could live
>> with some data loss as a result of a record temperature day.  But I
>> wouldn’t want to go out and replace a failed unit when it’s that cold.
>>
>>  *From:* George Skorup <[email protected]>
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2015 9:32 PM
>> *To:* [email protected]
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
>>
>> This winter was pretty cold. For about a week straight in the middle of
>> January and again in February, I had a few base units reporting under 0F
>> every night. And I know the outside air temp was -20 to -25F. Obviously
>> take the base unit's temp reading with a grain of salt because it's clearly
>> generating some internal heat. I would bet inside the enclosures it was
>> easily -15F. But I think your -13F is probably OK.
>>
>> On 5/18/2015 9:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>
>>   What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect
>> to see in your enclosures?
>>
>> The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few
>> new products.
>>
>> To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components
>> rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).    I'd like to retain this
>> rating, but I'm running into a minor snag:
>>
>> For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in
>> a socket.   I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at
>> that range.
>>
>> Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to
>> about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty.   "Industrial temperature
>> range" ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at
>> least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands.
>> When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems
>> excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100
>> price with some margin.
>>
>> So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game.   I hate to
>> ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a
>> large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature,
>> especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the
>> device.  Which leads me back to my original question:  What's the lowest
>> temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures.
>>
>> --
>>     *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>> [email protected] | http://www.packetflux.com
>>  <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>  <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> [email protected] | http://www.packetflux.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>  <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
>   <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>
>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
[email protected] | http://www.packetflux.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>  <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux>

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