The definition of when it is a person is what the issue is here. I'm not
going to get anymore into it than that, since it is pretty much a religious
argument.

On Monday, March 14, 2016, Cameron Crum <[email protected]> wrote:

> So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped, or is all just
> up to the individual and their "belief"?
> On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson" <[email protected]
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote:
>
>> No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because you
>> would be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss *as you understand
>> them.*   Not necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting
>> legislation that affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your
>> beliefs upon me, against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that
>> the boss upstairs wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make
>> decisions for ourselves (and of course take responsibility for those
>> decisions).  Someone with such beliefs would only support legislation that
>> would make decisions such as birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to
>> each individual, her conscience, and her relationship with the boss.
>>
>> ~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
>> discussion.  My apologies.
>>
>> On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post
>> properly.
>>
>> *From:* Chuck McCown <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
>> *To:* [email protected] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>> If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of us
>> hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation.
>> How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the boss.
>> He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.
>>
>> Persecution?
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
>> *To:* [email protected] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>>
>> So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, in
>> a country created to escape persecution from religion?
>> On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown" <[email protected]
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote:
>>
>>> Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care,
>>> contraception, or abortion.
>>>
>>> If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
>>> >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed above).
>>> >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its
>>> wishes with man.
>>> >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of
>>> churches or bodies of scripture.
>>> >>>>Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.
>>> The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe
>>> the above.
>>>
>>> You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should
>>> hedge their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right
>>> about that.   Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing
>>> a mortal sin.  Could be.
>>>
>>> For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do
>>> my thing, while you do your thing.
>>> But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal
>>> sins, I will try.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM
>>> *To:* <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>[email protected]
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>> Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care,
>>> contraception, or abortion?
>>>
>>> Those are medical issues.
>>> On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" <
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>>> [email protected]
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every
>>>> corner.  Let the churches handle it....they are more than capable.
>>>>
>>>> My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> *From:* Ken Hohhof <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>>>> *To:* [email protected] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>>
>>>> What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually
>>>> upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor
>>>> people having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if
>>>> you forgot:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy
>>>>
>>>> I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also
>>>> extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.
>>>> Which is the lesser evil?
>>>>
>>>> I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially
>>>> “other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
>>>> *To:* <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>[email protected]
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.
>>>> On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" <
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
>>>>> people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
>>>>> telling them what they can or can't do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not
>>>>> so sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
>>>>> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
>>>>> mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
>>>>> still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to
>>>>> hell in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have
>>>>> gone to hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family
>>>>> while dad goes to work?
>>>>>
>>>>> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much
>>>>> got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
>>>>> non-government-funded entities who can do that work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any tax is bad :)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>>>>> *To:* <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>[email protected]
>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>>>
>>>>> His stances:
>>>>> Gay marriage is wrong
>>>>> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
>>>>> Defund planned parenthood
>>>>> Raising corporate tax is bad
>>>>> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
>>>>> Wants to drill in ANWR
>>>>> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
>>>>> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
>>>>> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
>>>>> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
>>>>> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
>>>>> "Let's build a fence!"
>>>>> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received
>>>>> hospital treatment
>>>>>
>>>>> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
>>>>> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <
>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>[email protected]
>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.
>>>>>> There were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.
>>>>>> Seemed like the same old voodoo economics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
>>>>>> supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
>>>>>> protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
>>>>>> I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
>>>>>> Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
>>>>>> of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev>
>>>>>> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
>>>>>> *To:* <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>[email protected]
>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>>>>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared
>>>>>> on the national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him 
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> "man crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about 
>>>>>> him
>>>>>> Ken.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> *From:* Ken Hohhof <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>>>>>> *To:* <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>[email protected]
>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even
>>>>>> More AfterChicago Violence
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with
>>>>>> them, I'm
>>>>>> not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would
>>>>>> be Mitch
>>>>>> McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about
>>>>>> their own
>>>>>> power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but
>>>>>> I like
>>>>>> what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't
>>>>>> think
>>>>>> we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him
>>>>>> irrelevant.  And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with
>>>>>> someone
>>>>>> actually interested in governing.  I wonder what conservative goals
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make
>>>>>> Obama
>>>>>> fail no matter how much damage it causes.  Tort reform?
>>>>>> Modifications to
>>>>>> Obamacare?  Fix sequestration?  Tax reform?  Immigration reform?
>>>>>> Mitch
>>>>>> doesn't care.  Mitch cares about Mitch.  That's the problem with the
>>>>>> establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and
>>>>>> staying in
>>>>>> power, they don't even pretend to do their job.  And let me be clear,
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> not saying Pelosi, Reid and Boehner were much better, it's just
>>>>>> McConnell is
>>>>>> the most blatant hack of the bunch, every time I see him on TV I feel
>>>>>> he is
>>>>>> giving me the finger.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am probably fooling myself that Paul Ryan would be different, but I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> think we'll find out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Bill Prince
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:40 PM
>>>>>> To: <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>[email protected]
>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More
>>>>>> After
>>>>>> Chicago Violence
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMO, Obama moved right, and the Republicans moved further to the
>>>>>> right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bp
>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/13/2016 6:01 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>>>>> > Obama moved right as much as the Republicans moved left.
>>>>>> Everybody's idea
>>>>>> > of compromise these days is you come to where I am and I'll make a
>>>>>> deal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> !DSPAM:2,56e643e613941725215664!
>>
>>
>>

Reply via email to