The definition of when it is a person is what the issue is here. I'm not going to get anymore into it than that, since it is pretty much a religious argument.
On Monday, March 14, 2016, Cameron Crum <[email protected]> wrote: > So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped, or is all just > up to the individual and their "belief"? > On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson" <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > >> No, I want to go back to persecution. It is persecution because you >> would be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss *as you understand >> them.* Not necessarily as I see those wishes. Therefore by supporting >> legislation that affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your >> beliefs upon me, against my will. I may have the equally valid belief that >> the boss upstairs wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make >> decisions for ourselves (and of course take responsibility for those >> decisions). Someone with such beliefs would only support legislation that >> would make decisions such as birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to >> each individual, her conscience, and her relationship with the boss. >> >> ~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious >> discussion. My apologies. >> >> On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >> >> Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post >> properly. >> >> *From:* Chuck McCown <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM >> *To:* [email protected] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >> >> If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of us >> hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation. >> How is that persecution? Just trying to carry out the wishes of the boss. >> He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try. >> >> Persecution? >> >> *From:* Josh Reynolds >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM >> *To:* [email protected] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >> >> >> So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, in >> a country created to escape persecution from religion? >> On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown" <[email protected] >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: >> >>> Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care, >>> contraception, or abortion. >>> >>> If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc. >>> >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed above). >>> >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its >>> wishes with man. >>> >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of >>> churches or bodies of scripture. >>> >>>>Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man. >>> The church needs to be involved in all facets of life. If you believe >>> the above. >>> >>> You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should >>> hedge their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right >>> about that. Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing >>> a mortal sin. Could be. >>> >>> For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do >>> my thing, while you do your thing. >>> But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal >>> sins, I will try. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Josh Reynolds >>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM >>> *To:* <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>[email protected] >>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>> >>> >>> Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care, >>> contraception, or abortion? >>> >>> Those are medical issues. >>> On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" < >>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>> [email protected] >>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every >>>> corner. Let the churches handle it....they are more than capable. >>>> >>>> My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things) >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> *From:* Ken Hohhof <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>> *To:* [email protected] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>>> >>>> What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually >>>> upset about is they offer birth control. Some people obsess about poor >>>> people having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant. See this if >>>> you forgot: >>>> >>>> >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy >>>> >>>> I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also >>>> extremely anti-contraception. Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions. >>>> Which is the lesser evil? >>>> >>>> I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially >>>> “other” people having sex. #nosyneighbors #getalife >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds >>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM >>>> *To:* <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>[email protected] >>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>>> >>>> >>>> Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think. >>>> On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" < >>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>> [email protected] >>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here. >>>>> >>>>> I don't care about gay marriage. I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay >>>>> people. Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right >>>>> telling them what they can or can't do. >>>>> >>>>> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt. Now, I'm not >>>>> so sure on that. When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had >>>>> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her >>>>> mommy we thought that was odd. Quite a bit different now but it could >>>>> still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage". >>>>> >>>>> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to >>>>> hell in this country. But then again, so many "traditional" things have >>>>> gone to hell. How many women stay at home and take care of the family >>>>> while dad goes to work? >>>>> >>>>> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood. The videos pretty much >>>>> got to me. It's MY TAX DOLLARS. Defund it. There are plenty of other >>>>> non-government-funded entities who can do that work. >>>>> >>>>> Any tax is bad :) >>>>> >>>>> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds >>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>>> *To:* <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>[email protected] >>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>>>> >>>>> His stances: >>>>> Gay marriage is wrong >>>>> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple >>>>> Defund planned parenthood >>>>> Raising corporate tax is bad >>>>> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles. >>>>> Wants to drill in ANWR >>>>> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy. >>>>> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees. >>>>> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over >>>>> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens >>>>> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare >>>>> "Let's build a fence!" >>>>> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received >>>>> hospital treatment >>>>> >>>>> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me. >>>>> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof" < >>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>[email protected] >>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hey, I said I liked him. Just not full on man crush. >>>>>> >>>>>> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed. >>>>>> There were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget. >>>>>> Seemed like the same old voodoo economics. >>>>>> >>>>>> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin? At least Putin is >>>>>> supposedly an 8th degree black belt. He would probably take care of the >>>>>> protester himself. If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world, >>>>>> I’m not so sure. I think McCain could take him in a fair fight. Hell, >>>>>> Bernie could probably take him. I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo >>>>>> of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure. >>>>>> >>>>>> <http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev> >>>>>> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM >>>>>> *To:* <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>[email protected] >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared >>>>>> on the national stage. Very impressed with him. Could almost call him >>>>>> my >>>>>> "man crush". I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about >>>>>> him >>>>>> Ken. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> *From:* Ken Hohhof <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>>>> *To:* <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>[email protected] >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even >>>>>> More AfterChicago Violence >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with >>>>>> them, I'm >>>>>> not convinced it's about left or right. If I had to single out one >>>>>> person >>>>>> as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would >>>>>> be Mitch >>>>>> McConnell. All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about >>>>>> their own >>>>>> power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but >>>>>> I like >>>>>> what he has said since being elected Speaker. I would like to see if >>>>>> they >>>>>> are just words, or if he would translate them into actions. I don't >>>>>> think >>>>>> we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him >>>>>> irrelevant. And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with >>>>>> someone >>>>>> actually interested in governing. I wonder what conservative goals >>>>>> could >>>>>> have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make >>>>>> Obama >>>>>> fail no matter how much damage it causes. Tort reform? >>>>>> Modifications to >>>>>> Obamacare? Fix sequestration? Tax reform? Immigration reform? >>>>>> Mitch >>>>>> doesn't care. Mitch cares about Mitch. That's the problem with the >>>>>> establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and >>>>>> staying in >>>>>> power, they don't even pretend to do their job. And let me be clear, >>>>>> I'm >>>>>> not saying Pelosi, Reid and Boehner were much better, it's just >>>>>> McConnell is >>>>>> the most blatant hack of the bunch, every time I see him on TV I feel >>>>>> he is >>>>>> giving me the finger. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am probably fooling myself that Paul Ryan would be different, but I >>>>>> don't >>>>>> think we'll find out. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Bill Prince >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:40 PM >>>>>> To: <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>[email protected] >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More >>>>>> After >>>>>> Chicago Violence >>>>>> >>>>>> IMO, Obama moved right, and the Republicans moved further to the >>>>>> right. >>>>>> >>>>>> bp >>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/13/2016 6:01 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: >>>>>> > Obama moved right as much as the Republicans moved left. >>>>>> Everybody's idea >>>>>> > of compromise these days is you come to where I am and I'll make a >>>>>> deal. >>>>>> >>>>>> !DSPAM:2,56e643e613941725215664! >> >> >>
