We have a terminology problem obviously. "Human" means one thing to me and something else to you. "Conspiracy" is another such word. "Perverse" is another such word in all likelihood. Connotation loading is a big problem but it isn't the only one. This is exemplified by the moral loading of "perverse" as distinct from the constructive meaning denoted by "per" as in additional and "verse" as in turning. I will say, however, that the sexual perversion of eusocial insects is a kind of regression toward mitotic reproduction that could be taken to the penultimate in a Brave New World scenario where "Human" barely applies to the components behaving as though they were humans. Ultimately, you just have clones whether derived from biology, machinery or some combination thereof -- all achieving various specializations, similar to the organs in the human body's organs with their specialized tissues.
Such clone civilizations "breathe together," or conspire, in the most exquisite manner that we call the Individual Organism. That this regression started the moment two primates used their advanced cognitive capacity to deliberately gang up on another primate in an "unfair" fight should be seen as the nascent undoing of the Cambrian Explosion. Beyond that you start evolving the unconscious behavior now seen in "Humans" as they go into a blind instinctive panic at the thought they might be last at the dinner table feasting on the more individualistic and hence highly creative cultures. On Wed, Apr 8, 2026 at 10:40 AM Matt Mahoney <[email protected]> wrote: > I guess I didn't get the point about cities. Human civilization happened > because we evolved language and social cooperation. In other social > species, such as lions, males are driven out of the pack to prevent > inbreeding. What is the conspiracy? > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2026 at 4:47 PM James Bowery <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 7, 2026 at 1:04 PM Matt Mahoney <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> ... >>> But human behavior is inherited through language and culture, not just >>> DNA. We can alter it. >>> >> Hence transhumans. >> >>> >>> Humans are adapted to live on Earth. >>> >> >> That's my point. >> >> We can send self replicating nanotechnology into space, maybe seeding >>> planets in other solar systems and building Dyson spheres, and call them >>> transhuman. >>> >> >> You didn't get my point about cities. >> >> "Humanity" is already increasingly living in space habitats called >> cities. But this started millions of years before so-called >> "civilization". 6 million years ago approximately. >> >> Nor did you get my point about the Chimpanzee Human Last Common Ancestor >> that Wilson discusses as the origin of the transhuman condition in group >> warfare. >> >> Kubrick was quite prescient in that opening scene in 2001: A Space >> Odyssey. >> >> The question is when that bone became a tool used in warfare between >> Chimpanzee Human Last Common Ancestor gangs, was that the origin of Man or >> was it he origin of what has come to be called "trans-man"? It was, in >> fact, the origin of conspiracy -- breathing together to subvert the origin >> of the evolution of nervous systems in the Cambrian Explosion with the >> origin of Man, in the sense of masculinity, the sine qua non of which is >> male individual intrasexual selection primarily through territorial >> aggression that limited gene flow and provided an explosion of demes as a >> result. >> >> The evolution of eusociality in the descendants of those wars was always >> coupled with the evolution of technology by individual males driven from >> the hive to live at the periphery and hence expand the ecological range >> through tools and memes supporting tools. >> >> This did more than create the technology and advanced nervous systems >> that permits us to engage in sociobiological engineering of ourselves. It >> also provided a different use for cognition than mere conspiratorial >> ganging up on individuals to drive them to the edge of habitable zones >> where they HAD to invent technology or die. It provided an escape from the >> evolution of eusociality in the evolution of individual integrity. It is >> the later to which I refer when I say "Human" as opposed to "Transhuman". >> >> >>> -- Matt Mahoney, [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2026, 11:24 AM James Bowery <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Please excuse my acronyms -- I've been at this so long that it becomes >>>> tiresome saying the same thing over and over again. "The Social >>>> Conquest of Earth <https://youtu.be/bsgXYflLQjU>" aka TSCOE is one of >>>> the most essential books of the last century. "TSCOE" is what I've taken >>>> to typing from time to time but granting the book its own acronym is my >>>> subconscious way of honoring its importance. TSCOE is by the late great E. >>>> O. Wilson aka EOW (who should be similarly granted a well-known acronym for >>>> the same reason). Wilson originated the terms "biodiversity" and >>>> "sociobiology" on the strength of his fieldwork studying insects, >>>> particularly eusocial insects. TSCOE discusses the nature of what O'Neill >>>> calls "expanding technological civilization" as a nascent eusocial hive of >>>> transhumans. >>>> >>>> I don't expect you to buy into O'Neill's answer for y'all because you >>>> are just a sterile worker in that hive. It's not really up to you to >>>> understand. It's up to whatever corresponds to the "brain bugs >>>> <https://youtu.be/kIjDgiY-YyM>" that centralized control of the World >>>> Reserve Currency aka WRC aka the "Worst Resource Curse >>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse>". The WRC captures the >>>> positive network externalities of technological civilization. Because it >>>> is centralized by your betters, I had to propose >>>> <https://ota.polyonymo.us/others-papers/NetAssetTax_Bowery.txt> a >>>> political economy reform to decentralize it using a citizen's dividend >>>> funded by a wealth tax >>>> <https://ota.polyonymo.us/others-papers/NetAssetTax_Bowery.txt>. This >>>> followed my attempt to help humanity finance better brain bugs so they'd >>>> get on with the hive's telos. That was in response to discovering why even >>>> the private sector couldn't capitalize lowering the cost of access to >>>> space. Hell, not even EO Wilson understands the importance of space. He >>>> actively dismisses space as a proper ecosystem for your hive and he's among >>>> the most important thinkers on these issues I rely on! You'll see him >>>> introduced by Stewart Brand in the aforelilnked video on TSCOE. >>>> >>>> But I'll just say this about transhumans and their proper environment: >>>> Cities are nascent space stations. >>>> [image: image.png] >>>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2026 at 8:03 PM Matt Mahoney <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> James, I don't understand your oblique references. Can you please just >>>>> say directly what you mean without big words? It is really frustrating. I >>>>> figured out that CHLCA is chimpanzee human last common ancestor. I don't >>>>> know what Wilson's TSCOE is. I don't think that by WRC you mean the World >>>>> Rally Championship. What options should we be jumping on? >>>>> >>>>> I guess you are arguing that human civilization needs to go into space >>>>> to survive, but I really don't know. But if that's the case, I disagree. >>>>> It >>>>> is much cheaper to send robots into space. The Earth receives 90 petawatts >>>>> of solar energy, enough to support 45 trillion people at the current >>>>> consumption rate of 2 KW. And even that is 20 times our base metabolism. >>>>> >>>>> -- Matt Mahoney, [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2026, 5:36 PM James Bowery <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2026 at 2:40 PM Matt Mahoney <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> ... >>>>>>> Maybe you can explain the conflict between humanity and >>>>>>> transhumanity. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It goes back to the CHLCA according to E O Wilson's "The Social >>>>>> Conquest of Earth" -- and it is more accurately characterizd as a >>>>>> conflict >>>>>> between transhumanity and the biosphere or, to be more specific, between >>>>>> sexuality and what one might call "trans-sexuality", which I call sexual >>>>>> perversion. So sexual perversion of the primate line started with CHLCA >>>>>> in >>>>>> the form of nascent eusociality. See "Brave New World" if you want an >>>>>> amazingly prescient fictional portrayal of what I referred to as " >>>>>> y'all <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_(novel)>." >>>>>> >>>>>> Now don't take the word "perversion" as an insult since some of the >>>>>> most vital aspects of the biosphere are sexually perverted such as the >>>>>> eusocial insects which are vital to the biosphere. As Wilson described >>>>>> in >>>>>> TSCOE, the form transhumanity takes is incredibly dangerous to all life >>>>>> because humanity is the most extreme "generalist species" yet >>>>>> encountered. >>>>>> Imaginary such species are of course the infamous "paperclip maximizers", >>>>>> although a much more benign form would be what O'Neill implied in "asking >>>>>> the right question" of his most gifted physics students: >>>>>> >>>>>> "Is the surface of a planet really the right place for an expanding >>>>>> technological civilization?" >>>>>> >>>>>> That is why I was O'Neill's local support team leader in Miami when >>>>>> Bezos gave his valedictorian speech -- although Bezos hasn't yet quite >>>>>> gotten the Earth telos right. Sadly, NASA lied about the $/mass to LEO >>>>>> and >>>>>> did incredible amounts of damage that I attempted to remediate 10 years >>>>>> later at untold personal sacrifice only to learn That Unspeakable Thing >>>>>> In >>>>>> DC is the primary enemy of life due to the WRC trickledown through the >>>>>> institutions. >>>>>> >>>>>> It looks to me like transhumanity is winning for the simple reason >>>>>>> that the cost of medical care is doubling every 9 years while the cost >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> technology is halving every 3 years. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The conflict isn't about transhumanity losing. Why do you think I >>>>>> was ahead of ya'll by DECADES in trying to give ya'll options that, were >>>>>> you sane, you'd have jumped on with all 4s and run with? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > > -- > -- Matt Mahoney, [email protected] > *Artificial General Intelligence List <https://agi.topicbox.com/latest>* > / AGI / see discussions <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> + > participants <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> + > delivery options <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription> > Permalink > <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/Tc2616dc0a8577813-M99b5966126c5581ebb7cfafd> > ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/Tc2616dc0a8577813-Mf2e50975312c5595c89dc76b Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
